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Old 07-03-2007, 05:42 PM   #21
Parrothead
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Well said Tom. I totally agree with you. When I was going through our old home movies, there I am mowing the yard when I was about 11! My grandkids have gardeners. What I saw in those movies reminded me, we didn't live in a mansion or have a lot of things, but every movie showed hugs and love. Another thing almost every holiday dinner, we had guests that were not family. My parents gave and they got back many times over. When my Mother passed, several people I contacted were high school friends. I have no idea where any of my high school friends are. It is a changing world.
Happy trails...................
 
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Old 07-03-2007, 05:55 PM   #22
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Another thought. Let's not put all the blame for the schools on the administrators. And we earned our money, believe me, don't get me started. The administrator's hands are tied by the courts and the new laws. You can't touch a kid, you can't reprimand him (self esteem, you know) and the parents do not back up the teacher and the principal. I agree, with teachers needing to earn respect. I have worked in districts where there was a dress code for the teachers as well as students and there is a difference. At the high schools in other districts sometimes I couldn't tell the teachers from the students. But still a great deal of it starts at home, respect for authority and your elders. My grandchildren say things to me that I would have never thought of saying to my Grandparents. But then their Grandma is not baking cookies in the old homestead but taking off in her RV!
Happy 4th and Happy trails..............................
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:42 AM   #23
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Sue, Ed, I know the "real" teachers hands are tied by courts and laws. I remember when I was in grade school, a country boy, red headed, and full of mischief, like any other boy, but lawd, (Rich that "aint" mispelled, thats "country lingo" lol)I can still hear my dad telling that school teacher, "If Tommy dont mind you, do him as you would your "own", then let me know and when he gets home he'll get another switching!! you better believe I paid attention! didnt mind the teachers whipping so much , but my dads uhmmmmmm! Everyone have a GREAT 4TH of july, and tell them grandkids what it really "means"! thanks all , we love ya!
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Old 07-04-2007, 04:50 AM   #24
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This is a good thread. We are all products of our own generation, 40's, 50's.60's, 70's Etc.The social conditions that exsisted in "our" generation determine who we are and we carry those thoughts and ideals with us throughout our life time. Our generation is always the Best one..we improved on the one before us and the one after us is always going to pot.20 years from now today will be the "good old days" to the present generation. The present generation is healthier, Smarter, more aware than the generation before it as will the next generation. My generation, the 50's is history..we done good..so will this generation and the next one. This Ole Rich , execpt for the memories, has nothing in common with the good old days. I am looking for the latest technological goodie that I can play with. have faith...
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:15 AM   #25
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There are several points well brought up here. Richfaa points out that we survive generation after generation. While this is true I believe the safety margine in our youth is dwindleing. Tom 41 brings up the point that he worked on the farm that taught him values. Put the two together. We have tried to provide a better and better life, generation after generation. We are getting away from teaching our kids humility, so what if they do not have the shoes, jeans, car, phone and computer that is the envy of their classmates. My opinion a parent should supply what is needed if as a kid you want the "Bling" junior gets to work and buy what he wants. I garantee you will see a difference in what is important. I know because that is how I was raised. Do not get me wrong I did upgrade a few things, but I did not have to have everything. And as an adult I look back on at that time as a kid I thought it was so unfair that I could not have the things my best friend had. As an adult I am so thankful I was made to work for things I wanted. After all if I failed, then the worst that would happen I lived with the bare basics. As a adult failure has a adverse affect on us and the children we have and it turns to a cycle.
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Old 07-06-2007, 01:43 PM   #26
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I found this and thought it was rather down the line of this thread! its really funny (only if you a senior)


Senior Wisdom and Wit


A very self-important college freshman attending a recent football game, took it upon himself to explain to a senior citizen sitting next to him why it was impossible for the older generation to understand his generation.


"You grew up in a different world, actually an almost primitive one," the student said, loud enough for many of those nearby to hear.


"The young people of today grew up with television, jet planes, space travel, man walking on the moon, our spaceships have visited Mars. We have nuclear energy, electric and hydrogen cars, computers with light-speed processing and...


......pausing to take another drink of beer......


The senior took advantage of the break in the student's litany and said, "You're right, son We didn't have those things when we were young........so we invented them. Now, you arrogant little @&%!+%$#@, what are you doing for the next generation?"


I love senior citizens!
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Old 07-07-2007, 04:32 AM   #27
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Too well said!!!
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Old 07-07-2007, 05:20 AM   #28
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Love it and its so darn true.
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Old 07-07-2007, 11:23 AM   #29
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I think tom41's last post sums up the feeling of most of us here.

I agree that times are changing, but the values most of us share regarding hard work, self reliance, integrity, would never hurt the next generation to learn any more than it hurt us.

I for one worry about the future of my children and grandchildren. I am sure they will survive, however I am concerned much as my parents were concerned about me.

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Old 07-07-2007, 12:08 PM   #30
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And 40 years from now that young student now a senior himself will have the same conversation with a college freshman of the future, and so it goes.
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Old 07-07-2007, 03:22 PM   #31
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I agree with Orv and many others about the use of math skills as opposed to relying on a calculator. When I was 16 years old, I was attending school in England; the final exam for graduation in math was ONE question. This one question took me nearly 8 hours to complete, without a calculator.
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Old 07-07-2007, 04:45 PM   #32
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The problem as I see it, is that there isn't any accountability on the most important person in our educational system-the student! We need to go to a system of education where the student MUST demo his or hers mastery of the course/grade level objectives to receive credit or promotion. Today there are way to many stones thrown at the teachers/administrators but NOT the students. WHOSE EDUCATION IS IT! We all have ours. I say if a student can't do 3rd grade math why is that student in 4th or 8th or whatever grade? Or why if a student doesn't graduate until they are 20 so be it. The schools can't not be help accountable for things they can't control like parental SES, home values(if the kid has a home besides a cardboard box under the main street bridge), etc. It is the kids choice so they should be help accountable. We were fortunate that our parents instilled in us (one way or another) that school success was our responsibility. I'll get off of my soap box now.

Steve Andreasen,EdD a retired teacher
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Old 07-07-2007, 07:42 PM   #33
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Being held accountable is why a lot of states have a testing program in order to graduate from HS. The problem in Idaho and Washington is that when kids fail the test the parents start screaming and pressure is put on the state to water down the test. Real parents are supportive of the schools and attend conferences and hold their kids accountable at home. As a general rule I found that these parents are successful and expect their kids to be the same. Other parents are people that just happen to have kids and think that they will turn out ok. IF they attend conferences they say what you want to hear and nothing ever changes with them or their kids. They take the path of least resistance with teachers and their offspring and wonder why they don't turn out right. Some people just don't get the fact that parenting is a full time job

After 38 years of teaching in the town I grew up in I got to see two and in some cases three generations of success and failure. From my classroom are some doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers, successful business people, lots of truck drivers, mechanics, loggers, equipment operators, and burger flippers and professional welfare recipients. It takes all of them to make our world go around.
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Old 07-08-2007, 03:39 AM   #34
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Here in Texas there has been quite a bit of news coverage concerning how the tests are being administered. There is concern that we are teaching our kids to simply pass the test. And where are the parents in this. Watering down the test will make the kids pass, but does that prepare them for life. Childhood version of Affirmative action.
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Old 07-14-2007, 06:02 AM   #35
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Another bit of info that loosely fits into this. Throughout recorded history 6K years give or take. We are certainly not the first to try democracy. And every one has failed in the time frame of about 200 years. In every case there were 4 common demonitators, 1:Overtaxation 2: Redistribution of wealth. (I think we are the first to take from rich to give to poor; ie welfare) 3: Moral decline and 4: overempowerment of government. We have it all going on right now in this country. And every generation will one by one creep closer into this cycle through lack of awareness and lack of old fasioned Gumption!
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Old 07-15-2007, 04:25 AM   #36
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Not only do some of the kids not know simple math but they don't want to work. My son has a business and employs about 5 people. He treats them good, pays them $16 an hour, and buys them lunch and breakfast, not a lot of money but better than McDonalds. You would not believe the people he has had to fire for wanting to sit in the truck all day or don't show up every day. Or they disappear. This work is not extremely difficult or hard to do.
Drug usage has also been a problem. Some have been fired for that. I didn't know that drug usage was so common. Now employees have to pass a drug test.
My son does not ask anyone to do anything that he wouldn't do. He is a good businessman and his business is growing by leaps and bounds. These employees are usually in early 20's or in teens. Some have been older. The older employees are the best workers!
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Old 07-15-2007, 05:21 AM   #37
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I think it's called "work ethic". Quite simply older folks have it and younger folks don't. Of course, when dealing with people there are ALWAYS exceptions. However, over my 59 years I have generally found this to be the case. If you are a "younger folk" and have a work ethic, please don't take offense at this, you are probably in the minority......And where is this work ethic developed? In the home, of course. It is a parental philosophy to want better for our kids than we had, however there is a world of difference in how we go about doing this. Some, probably most, teach responsibility to their kids while others just GIVE them everthing they can. I won't go into the many things I did as a kid to survive, but suffice it to say that most young folks now days are not required to survive......
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Old 07-15-2007, 07:00 AM   #38
Parrothead
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Phil
I so agree with you. My daughters (especially the youngest, 34, qualify for "younger"). They all have great work ethics. Why, because they saw myself and my parents working hard and being very oriented to completing a job and doing it correctly.
Happy trails...................
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Old 07-16-2007, 04:37 AM   #39
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Phil, Sue, and others: I believe it wasn't just watching us work, it was also having to work themselves - whether in the home or outside; work to get allowance, money for movies, the 'luxury' items that they wanted. Being military, we didn't have a lot of 'expendable' income during my daughters years at home. So, she had to work to earn and get some of the things that her classmates were given. I remember one day when she commented on how poorly one of her 'friends' spoke to her folks and treated her car and clothing. She (my daughter) stated her friend probably wouldn't be doing that if she had to pay for it herself!!! It hasn't changed as they've gotten older either, at least from what my daughter tells me. My wife and I often had 'talks' about how my military career interferred with giving the things to my daughter that other kids her age were being giving. We would have liked to, but with the constant moves and all, we couldn't; we couldn't get them for ourselves either. (Wife looking over my shoulder says 'Oh poor you!!!! ). In any case, --- Now we look back at it and say it was all for the better.
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