A black tank is not that strong

[sreigle]

Anybody guess what happens when you turn on the black tank flush after closing its dump valve then go inside and set the timer for 20 minutes?

Well, it cost me $1214.54 to find out. There are three possiblities. The overflow can go out the vent on the roof and make a real mess. That's probably the option I'd prefer.

Or, it could overflow into the rig through the toilet. Nah, I don't want that to happen, either.

Or, it could rupture the tank, making a mess both in the belly and on the ground. Yep, that's what happened. And, of course, it saturated and destroyed the arctic package insulation blanket, at least the forward 1/3 to 1/2.

The only "good" news is that the black tank, with shipping, costs "only" $137 and change. The bad news is that when you have to use a mobile service (long story) and the temperature is in the teens and low twenties, and it takes two of those guys to handle all this, the total bill is not cheap.

Nope, we did not have an extended warranty. I'd been researching that issue but had not done anything about it. So we did not have extended warranty. We do now, though.

[SlickWillie]

I was talking with a young service man working on our neighbors RV the other day. He said the holding tanks are the #1 item that they have to service. He said they are just so flimsy they won't hold up. Also, he said it makes no difference if they are supported correctly or not, they still crack.

Just curious. Why shut the valve and leave the flush on for 20 minutes? I always flush with the valve open.

[Jay Bird]

OUCH!!!! That hurts. At least we are glad you were able to get the problem taken care of. I have used this method to back flush the black tank but only for a short time (several minutes)even though the manual says not to close the dump valve when using the black tank flush. Believe me, that I will discontinue this method. You never know when you may get distracted and forget the valve is closed.

George and Rosetta

[sreigle]

You're right about the flimsy. I picked up the new one from our dealer's and easily carried it under one arm.

Will, I have always had the valve open when flushing. Except this once. It was plain and simple a screwup on my part. A mental screwup. I've noticed when I mess something up it's expensive. You'd think I'd pick cheap ones to screw up, but noooooo, not me!

[firetrucker]

Stev, the phrase holy crap does not BEGIN to cover the things that got covered when the tank let go, I'll bet. Having the effluent go out the vent brings to mind the movie RV, but I wonder why it didn't go up the vent instead of rupturing the tank??

I've always been cautious about using the flush after hearing some of the stories on the forum, so I always monitor the first fill to see how long it takes to get a good amount of water in the tank before I pull the valve. So far I've been lucky.

Did it let go at a seam, hopefully on the bottom? How many bottles of Fabreze did it take, or did you have to use something stronger?

I hope it didn't take too long to get the repair done.

Fragrant trails.

Bob

[sreigle]

Bob, it let go at the seam of the outlet pipe. I had been suspecting we have a leak but the Keystone Service Center could find no leaks just a couple of months earlier. So either it was a weak point on the seam or it was already slighly cracked.

It took more than a week to get the new tank shipped and the old replaced. Fortunately, knowing after the first mobile service visit just where it was ruptured we were able to use the tank so long as I dumped it every other day, before it reached that crack. Unfortunately it destroyed the arctic package and the service used house roll insulation in its place. And I think they have the furnace duct blocked. That's yet to be determined if I can ever get a nice day free of other things so I can check it out.

The service people did all the cleanup. Thankfully.

[Bill-N-Donna]

I saw another thread where someone was asking about you. They hadn’t seen any postings in a while. Someone chimed in there and indicated you were busy and that you were to say the least. Wow, you have certainly had a streak of bad things happening lately but hopefully now it’s all behind you. I do think you may have a best seller if you wrote a book…na just tell us on the forum, it helps us all. Thanks for the up-dates.

[Art-n-Marge]

I, like Steve and Jaybird have used the black tank sprayer when black tank valve closed to refill the black tank because I'm amazed that stuff gets stuck to the sides of the tank and needs to be refilled to loosen things up. I am not convinced that the tornada sprayer uses enough spray pressure or coverage to get everything 100% the first time and will refill two or three times for 5 or 10 minutes in an attempt to get that last bit of debris out of the black tank. About the third time is when the black tank is clear enough for my satisfaction. However, I won't leave the tank and staying in my fold up chair through the process because I know if I leave the area I will forget and end up with a problem.

But the tank should NOT blow up. I am under the impression that the biggest problem is that the tanks are not shored up properly to be supported when they are full (or overfilled). When overfilled this extra weight can add pressure to the tank and its supports. Sure, you shouldn't overfill, but there are less expensive ways to indicate it.

On Edit: This story reminds me of a friend of mine who had purchased a new Keystone Cougar TT a few years ago the city water connection is right next to the black tank flush on the rig. He accidently connected the city water supply to the black tank and turned on the water full blast and then went to continue setting up the rig. Within 20 minutes or so, a river is seeing coming out his front door...ewwwww. After turning off the water and cursing himself, he packs everything back up and heads home to sterilize everything which takes pretty much all day. After this happened a SECOND TIME, he said he came up with new labelling to ensure this no longer happens and now tests the faucets prior to doing anything else. While the river is an indication of a screw up, it doesn't cost $1,300 to fix. Time is free when we screw up isn't it? Plus cleaning supplies.

[boylanag]

I shut the valve and fill with the flush for 5 minutes. I stay right there and do not talk with friendly neighbors who always choose this time to come over to chat. After two or three of these, I fill the comode with water and let is go all at once a couple of times. Learned that from exnavydiver and found that it ALWAYS has more "stuff" in it after the original flushes. I guess this shows that the flush still leaves some on the sides of the tank.

[DarMar]

I, like others, have used the black tank flush feature with the valve in the closed position for approximately the 5 minute time span and it has worked well for us. As Jim stated I also stay right there and do not talk to anyone, friendly or not while I am doing this process. I now realize that I may not have considered the consequences from doing it in this way IN THE EVENT that I may get distracted for any reason. Your post has me considering changing my process as like others who have gone before us I do not want to end up with such a problem!!!

[HamRad]

Steve,
Twenty minutes! Wow that seems like a long time. Anyway we are really sorry to learn of all your woes! At least as you get further south you, hopefully, will start having much warmer and nicer weather.

Later,
Dennis

[vickir]

Just a point of clarification ... we didn't have any mess inside at all and none that would fall into the "holy crap" category. Fortunately (for Steve ), the mess was completely concentrated in the belly and the concrete pad where we were parked. We did, however, have a smell that nearly peeled the wallpaper (border) off the wall.

[richfaa]

We now have a leak in our 3rd black tank. We never travel with liquid in any tank. We never let the tanks fill up. We dump the black and galley tanks every couple of days... We have a leak, high up on 3rd black tank. They are made of ABS material and the company that makes them will tell you that the installation process is a fault. They should be and the company recommends they be strapped up. Keystone chooses not to. Steve our last replacement bill was 729.00 of which cost me 50.00 under our extended warranty. We will have this one replaced in Goshen under the supervision of the Tank manufacturer. properly I hope.

[sreigle]

Rich, I think my labor bill was so high because it required the presence of two service people for part of the time. But it was so far to their home base that both stayed the entire time. And I probably paid labor for each of them for the entire time. We now have extended warranty but with $200 deductible. Even that's a bargain compared the the $1200 I paid.

Several noted they keep the valve closed and run a few minutes of water into the tank, then dump it, but stay close to the tank. I do the same now and then and usually set a timer to go off in five minutes. Or keep a close eye on my watch. However, in this case it was my intent to flush the tank with the valve OPEN for twenty minutes while I did some other things inside. However, I screwed up and closed the valve after dumping the tank and starting the flush. My intent was to leave it open. Now I double check and double check again.

[vickir]

And I ask him if he left it open!

[K&Gs3400RL]

On my second Cougar I did just the opposite I mistakenly closed the black tank valve while filling the tank with a flush king. Dident take but about 45 seconds and I blew the valve seals, and broke the pipe Oops.... Lesson learned.

[timandsusan]

I mistakenly hooked up the flush system when I meant to hook up to the fresh water. I heard the flush system spraying the tank and I quickly realized my mistake! Lesson learned--look at the signs on the inlets! The other thing is when I am wearing my disposable sewer gloves--I don't think many people think I want to talk--and I don't. It keeps the handshaker types a bay.

[sreigle]

I copied Glenn's idea of setting up the outside shower to connect to the black tank flush so I don't have to use a hose for that. Works great. The way mine is set up it would not be easy to mistakenly connect a hose to the black tank flush. I also keep the shower and flush inlet disconnected when not in use. Just in case. Back when I used a hose to flush, my shutoff valve on the park's spigot did not fully close. I woke up in the middle of the night, did my bathroom thing and "dangled" myself into a full toilet, just about to run over. Now it's always disconnected when not in use.

Keystone Service Center told me they do not recommend using the shower connection for the flush because the pressure has been reduced by the regulator at that point. That's correct, however, we use an adjustable whole house type regulator I have set to max at 60 psi, which exceeds most parks' pressure. Some have better but most do not.

[SlickWillie]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

We now have a leak in our 3rd black tank. We never travel with liquid in any tank. We never let the tanks fill up. We dump the black and galley tanks every couple of days... We have a leak, high up on 3rd black tank. They are made of ABS material and the company that makes them will tell you that the installation process is a fault. They should be and the company recommends they be strapped up. Keystone chooses not to. Steve our last replacement bill was 729.00 of which cost me 50.00 under our extended warranty. We will have this one replaced in Goshen under the supervision of the Tank manufacturer. properly I hope.

Rich, that has been what I thought was the problem with the tanks. Lack of support. But the service man I talked with said he sees just as many fail that are strapped under the bottom. Makes me think the tanks are merely too thin and flimsy. All three of ours will leak when full. I plan to get all three replaced this summer. I have a plan like yours, with a $50 deductible. I had considered perhaps supporting the tanks with straps and some sort of soft material. Not sure now what I will do.

[boylanag]

Thanks for the reminder, Steve. I am the guy that ALWAYS remembers to do things right - except for the times that I forget. I, too, can be a very costly learner.