Keystone Piece Work

[Jolu]

Saw this morning on Fox New a segment about Keystone in Goshen and how they are recovering and have hired 500 people back.

Something interesting, the reporter was asked why the workers were running around doing their job. The answer was they got paid piece work. They were paid by the job and they would have 22 units done by 1:30 today. About a 8 hr. day. The report was done in the Cougar plant.

I didn't know they worked piece work. I would guess that is the same for Montana also and probably most of the manufactures in Goshen and Elkhart. Interesting

[richfaa]

I guess you could call it piece work, or quota. It is true as we have been told on the factory tours that they do have a "quota" or number of units to produce per day. It is the same in all the plants. That is also not the best for Quality and workmanship..

[Jolu]

On the other hand it can be a helpful quality control tool. If a worker is charged with only installing cabinet doors or a water heater, his name is on that job and not just one of many who may have had their fingers in the task. If it becomes an issue with his installs he is replaced with someone who will do the job with quality. This creates an incentive on the workers part to do a good job.

I see piece work as a tool as where by the factory can count on XX amount of units for a given time. This helps to keep the prices fixed in the labor department. I worked piece work in the construction industry most of my life. Even as a general contractor it was pretty much like that. It's like if you have a roofer come out and give you a price to do your roof. That is essentially piece work. That probably isn't the best example though.

Since Montana has been the number one selling 5th wheel in the industry for 8 or 9 years straight. We pretty much know what we get with the Montana.

We just ordered a 2010 3150RL and should pick it up about the first of March. The factory takes a couple of weeks off from Christmas to New Years is what they tell me and right now they are pretty busy. I am assuming they build several models of the same floor plan and then onto another floor plan.

[Tom S.]

Piece work is two edge sword. Companies pay less than minimum wage knowing the workers will work harder to make up the difference. In doing so, quality and safety usually suffer and production equipment gets abused and beat up. Another method, quotas is no better. Again, employees take short cuts and beat the equipment up to make their quota. Early in life, I worked briefly on an oil pan baffle stamping line in a GM plant. The quota was 400 per hour and we could get it done in 30 minutes, which gave us 30 minutes off, but the dies were smoking hot after that 30 minute run, and if you couldn't keep up with the press in front of you, too bad, you just got buried in parts.

[richfaa]

Do not compare the RV industry with any other industry. The RV assembly line is archaic by any other assembly line standards. You need to visit any RV plant to understand that.. It is not a slam at Keystone/Montana..just he way it is. IMO Keystone is one of the best in trying to get out a quality product..all things considered. Again..IMO the difference between my 06 3400 Born in April of 2006 and the new 2010 units in terms of improvments, ungrades and quality is night and day. The 2010 units make my 06 look ..well....really old... IMO////

[Emmel]

Thanks Rich for your discription. I worked piece work assembling aircraft wheels and brakes for over 38 years and took pride in my work. I didn't like to do rework, payed a lot less!
At the factory, they used a quota system and if they manufactured their quota in , say, 7 1/2 hours, the workers could actually leave early. This was explained to us at the tour about every year we have been there, all the rallys and once before.

[Jolu]

Just a side note as to how Montana keeps doing things better. I just had a call from my rep and our unit will be built the last week of Feb.
The new Montana will have the slam latch baggage doors, step light (remote), wet bolts and new what they call chocolate color corian counter tops.
I don't know if the bay doors are gloss gel.
I have had the slam latch doors before and I liked them.
So anyone ordering now will get a few surprises.

[party of 5]

Thio may explain why mine Mountaineer was a piece of .... I have since traded it in for SOB. I have had the SOB for almost a year and not 1 single problem. With the Mountaineer there was something wrong almost every time I took it out. The 1st problem came right after delivery and before our first trip and nver got better from there. Could not have been happier to see it go.

[richfaa]

Well you SOB was manufacturered in exactly the same way...They all are..

[SlickWillie]

Haste makes waste!

I do believe SOBs on the market have a little better quality control, as evidenced by fit and finish.

[ols1932]

Tom S.,
I didn't know it was legal to pay "less than minimum wage."

Orv

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by ols1932

Tom S.,
I didn't know it was legal to pay "less than minimum wage."

Orv

Yup - because they can make it up with the piece work. Kind of like waitresses, many of whom do not get minimum wage.

[SlickWillie]

quote:Originally posted by Tom S.

Yup - because they can make it up with the piece work. Kind of like waitresses, many of whom do not get minimum wage.

I've never known of any place that paid for piece work actually paying less than the federal minimum wage. Waiters in a restaurant fall into a different category. But then, even with the minimum for them at a little over $2 per hour, if they do not meet the federal minimum wage when their tips are added to the lower minimum, the employer must make up the difference.

[Delaine and Lindy]

Most every thing thats built on a assembly line is or can be called piece work. Its what happens during and after the piece work. If people aren't being checked things will and do get by. And someone stated they got 22 units out by 1:30???? I have also been to the factorys and can see why there are so many small problems, if they happen to fall behind it don't get done right and you will have leaks and loose connections. We are very satisfied with our 5th wheel we didn't have but one issue on our last 5er and we aren't week-enders and so for haven't had a problem or issue with the one we are in now. We were at the factory when our frame was on line, and the owner gave a demo and talk about their frames. How every we were in line because every unit on line was sold as is all units that are built there. We had so many changes 3 floor plans to get one finished product. It took 10 weeks from start to finish until we picked it up. I think they were building 15 units a month from start to finish product. Piece work is piece work and there is and will be problems if the Q/C isn't being done. I do believe if a 5th wheel is used more often you will have less problems. I know this is counter to what some people believe. But I strongly believe this. And its been my experiece if the work isn't checked it will in some cases be the reason for many annoying issues that we shouldn't have to deal with. GBY....

[richfaa]

As stated above..There is a big difference betwen buiding 15 a month and 22 per day. There is nothing wrong with quota or piece work IF the quality control is done correctly. Any one who has toured nearly any factory can see whay we have workmanship problems. As for who can and who can not receive Minimum wage.. look it up..and become educated....Start here http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm

[SlickWillie]

The problem I have always seen with that type work, is it rewards the employee if he can do the job in less time. In my younger days, I worked as a production checker in a Ford battery plant. The battery case press operators were on a quota. They cut every corner they could to get through early to have goof off time. It always showed in the finished cases. A press would malfunction, and they were in such a hurry to make their quota, they would let it kick out several reject cases before correcting the problem. I saw the same problem when I worked for Belden Wire and Cable.

[richfaa]

That is true Will..However our family operates two manufacturing plants in Ohio and computerized quality checks are taken at each step of the manufacturing process insuring that the end products is defect free. Quality can be achieved but it comes at a price that the RV industry as competitive as it is, is not willing to invest in.. We buy the product as it is... Why spend more money for minimum increase in the profit line.
Having sold RV's for several years at large RV shows few folks look for quality. The two questions are...what is he monthly payment and can my xxxx tow it.

[PatnRich]

As a carpenter with 40 years experience, we don't work with "quotas" or piece work. BUT, a contractor who has costs of X dollars/hr (wages, benefits, comp, matching social security, overhead, profit) needs to have his employees produce enough to make those numbers work.

An accoustical ceiling contractor figures a person will hang Xsq.ft of grid/day. Same with a drywall contractor - so many lin.ft/day of framing ,so many sheets of drywall/day. If you can't produce, they lay you off. Floor covering - the same. No piece work or quotas though, go figure!


PatnRich

[Tom S.]

Rich, Good link! For those who don't want to read through it:

Employers may pay employees on a piece#8209;rate basis, as long as they receive at least the equivalent of the required minimum hourly wage rate and overtime for hours worked in excess of 40 hours in a workweek. Employers of tipped employees (i.e., those who customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a month in tips) may consider such tips as part of their wages, but employers must pay a direct wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they claim a tip credit. They must also meet certain other requirements. For a full listing of the requirements an employer must meet to use the tip credit provision, see the Wage and Hour Division Fact Sheet #15: Tipped Employees Under the FLSA.(http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.pdf)

[DonandJudy_12]

When we had a tour of the Montana plant in Goshen several years ago, we were told by the tour director that each station on the assembly line was staffed by a team who always worked together- The team was paid as a group to perform their function- If a team member was missing, the team caught up the slack- If one member finished his duties, he helped out where ever he was needed- The missing team members' pay was split up among those present- Is this an accurate description of the system used? Don