U-bolts, TOO CLOSE for Comfort

[Leaseit]

Rich, need to ask this please. Your new IS Axles are rated at 7,000 pounds each. I see you have steel rims on the unit, and you made a comment about the E rated tires being slightly over spec with the weight you that used to be on board.
Question is, are you intending to upgrade your tires to G rated at some point in the future or go to 17.5 inch tires to get a higher tire rating?

Randy

[Mudchief]

Rich, did they weigh each wheel or just the complete axles? It would be nice to know how the units weighs side to side.

[richfaa]

Leaseit.. I would have already made that change had we not had the U bolt failure in Mich. We had no choice on the tire replacement so we will have to hold on that. Mudchief..they weighed each wheel..on the 3400 the galley side was heavier example

LEFT RIGHT
Front 3200 3125 6325
rear 3425 3175 6600

The numbers are with the truck hooked to the camper.

[indy roadrunner]

Thanks to who ever started this. I am prepping for a trip to Florida and read about the u bolts. I checked mine and they were loose - took several turns to reach 60 ft lbs.

[simonsrf]

quote:Originally posted by indy roadrunner

Thanks to who ever started this. I am prepping for a trip to Florida and read about the u bolts. I checked mine and they were loose - took several turns to reach 60 ft lbs.

Did you read all nine pages like I did?

[indy roadrunner]

Yes, I read all nine pages including those that went off topic. It was still good reading.

[richfaa]

Here at the fall rally Dexter now recommends that the torque be set at 75lbs. They did a really good seminar on the suspension and brake system, They now have self adjuster brakes and many were making the upgrade here at the rally.

[MIMF]

Well Gang, yesterday we were at the 5er over the weekend and I got to thinkin' about this thread. So, went to the tool box and got out the torque wrench, snapped a 3/4" socket on it, set the torque to 65 ft lbs. Then, I proceeded to crawl under to the Alko-Kolbers. What I found was not all that surprising. 2 of the 8 U-bolts were loose as heck. Both on the same side but, one on each axle.

They are all good at 65 ft lbs, now. Sure wish I would have done this before Gail and I did our 8 day travel vacation at the end of August. We went up to Lake City, MI for 2 days. Then, over to Emire, MI for 2 days and walked on top of that 450 foot sand dune at Sleeping Bear National Lakeshore. We did infact see Door County, WI across there. From there, up to Mill Creek in Mackinaw City for 4 days.

What a great trip!!

Was somewhat disappointed to find these loose nuts, though. Otherwise, had a breakdown free 700 mile 'round trip. I'll be checking these a little more offten as most of you will be doing.

[richfaa]

The IS system is awesome. I can not describe the difference in ride and handling. It is a completly different camper. The 225 mile ride home was smooth as silk. Now if we could only get the truck to ride as smooth. Will do the brakes at the next rally. The ole pocketbook could not take both hits in the same year

[Tom S.]

Rich, when you say 'do the brakes' are you referring to the self adjusters or the disc brakes? I have been mulling over (maybe that should be drooling over?) the disc brakes.

[richfaa]

We mean the disc brake system. After being weighed the need for better stopping power was evident. The need for the IS system and the Disc brake system has to be carefuly considered. It is a expensive project and all things need to be considered. The cost today for both is in the 5,000/5,500 range however after the upgrades you have a entirely different camper way above the Montana price range.

[thor]

this is to richfaa.you changed suspensions to indepent and whent from 6000 to 7000lbs rating .my question is did dextra or change the rating of the sticker on your trailer so if you ever pulled over that you would have some kind of proof to show you havery rated axles other wise you still are rated at 6000 as far as the sacles are concerned.i was thinking of doing some upgrades as long as it reflects this on my sticker on the trailer.

[richfaa]

No there was no change to the sticker and since we are not commerical we are not subject to any of the "weight laws" here in the States. however there is a document from Mor Ryde that states the rated capacity of this IS system at 7K. Remember..The IS system has NO axles so there is NO axles rating to change. Interesting problem?????

[tgrucelski]

Greetings all,

Haven't had time to follow the forum much the last couple of months and was surprised to see more of the U-bolt issue had popped up.

I should have changed the re-edit post subject to "U-BOLTS"

Note: After scenic return trip from CA in June, 3k miles later and prior to another work trip to Florida, U-bolts were all still good to go @ 65 ft/lbs

Safe travels to all, currently at Nature Coast Landings Resort, Crystal River, FL - working the CR3 SGR outage.

From my post last January 16th (near disaster rolling through downtown Tulsa, OK on the way from WI to CA. Rolled over a rather nasty angled bridge joint @ 50 ~ 60 mph during rush hour, truck suddenly started pulling funny and I look in the mirror to see smoke rolling out the left rear trailer tire):

Bottom line: AXLE U-BOLTS NOT TORQUED.

What I surmise happened is the spring set bounced/ shifted around enough to where it finally sheared off the spring set alignment bolt on that last bump, causing the 3 lower leaf segments to fly out. Axle then abruptly shifted rearward until it jammed against the spring hangers on the frame thereby shredding the tire on the sheetmetal and supports. U-bolts were still intact although bent.

Got on the phone with Keystone this a.m., they put me touch with Dexter as it appeared this would be all on them.

Numerous calls back and forth with Connie at Dexter Cust. Serv. - she was most helpful. Pics taken at her request and Keystone's and I retrieved the axle s/n - I don't have it handy at the moment but she was able to ascertain it had a build date of 08-16-07.

With our rig sitting at A-A-A Truck Repair in Tulsa after that hair-raising lowboy transport through downtown Tulsa, they jumped right on it this morning. The owner knew of an outfit called A&N Trailer who also happened to be a Dexter distributor. Connie helped out with what parts would be needed and luckily they had a new spring set on the shelf along with a tie plate plus an extra and a full set of U-bolts in case we found any others damaged. A&N also sells tires and had one that I could use for a new spare. Took the original spare and swapped it over to the aluminum wheel.

While we were waiting on the parts, I had the mechanic check the rest of the components. All of the spring-to-frame bolts were tight. However, when he got to the U-bolts, none of them were torqued to the required 70 ft/lbs. I watched as he turned most of them at least an 1/8 turn with only 50 on his wrench. Looks like whoever put these together did not finish the job, had a bad day or maybe it was his last. Whatever the reason, it's completely unacceptable.

I had some concerns about the alignment bolts on the remaining 3 and Connie had me speak with an engineer by the name of Duane there at Dexter. Now that I have an understanding I thought I would pass this along: The function of the alignment bolt is to hold the spring set together during assembly. A round head bolt is dropped through the upper leaf, a nut threaded onto the end protruding through the lower leaf and then the excess bolt cut off. This nut/ cutoff bolt then simply sits in a clearance hole in the bracket that is welded to the axle. The alignment bolt serves no function against shear forces, it is solely up to the U-bolts that sandwich the assembly together being at the proper torque.

I had asked if she had heard of any other incidents like this to which the reply was no. I had also asked if this was the sort of thing that might generate a recall notice to which the reply was also no. Not sure I like that response and may write a letter to them and Keystone since this could have been a much more serious incident.

Should I be more spun up about this? Here's the thing: I mean, ok it's an RV and you are going to have nuisance problems, I can live with that. This incident on the other hand could have easily turned into a life or death situation due to negligence. Any thoughts/ feedback appreciated. At the very least I thought it would be prudent to post the details on this forum with the hope it will save someone else the aggravation or worse.

At any rate, A-A-A had us out the door in around 4 hours and we are now in Amarillo, TX continuing on our way to sunny CA. Enough of the snow and sub-zero temps back home in WI.

Take care all, and in closing I would highly recommend checking the U-bolts on your rigs - an oz. or prevention worth a lb. of cure as they say.

[RidgecrestDad]

Similar response to an earlier post. What a great site. Never even considered looking at the ubolts and nuts underneath to check if they were torqued properly. Out of 16 nuts on my 2007 3075RL, I did not find any about to come off, but then again can't recall any that were at the proper torque of 60#. Most took a half-turn to a turn to reach the proper value. One or two a bit more.

Thanks for the tip.

[Exnavydiver]

Todd, as Richfaa stated in a previous post in this thread, he had not read the dexter axle manual that came with the rig and that it stated that the u-bolts need to be torqued periodically. I suspect that the same situation has happened to most who have U-bolt problems and axle shifting problems. I for one haven't read that manual either and thanks to Rich's first post and major problem I checked mine and found the problem that starts this thread. All nuts are now torqued to specs (75lbs) as per the lecture we attended at the rally. I was one of the first to shout a blame arrow at Keystone and Dexter and Lippert but will readily take the blame for not reading the manual and admit that I screwed up in not doing so. Any problem arising from this failure on my part would have been totally my fault. So I guess my point it break out ALL your manuals and read them so you at least have an idea of what is going on in and under your rig. I am half way through my stock of manuals and should finish by the end of the week. I have learned a lot of good info from them. When I got the rig I figured I had been around RVs long enough to be able to wing-it and have recently found out how far from the truth I was... Dave

[richfaa]

Yep..I did not read the manual and paid the price. If we do not follow procedures clearly set forth by the manufacturer who is at fault. Perhaps there should be a sticker on the side of the camper like there is for checking lug nuts. Hummmmm..is there a recall for consumer ignorance....

[tgrucelski]

One more reply... last one for me.

This forum is all about sharing our experiences with our rigs and hopefully passing along useful information to others. Since Keystone claimed not to have heard about this problem before I called last January, what can we do to raise awareness to new owners? I'm all for taking a proactive approach on this.

I had hoped that by this time Keystone would have picked up on this and would have at least added a sentence or two in bold to the manual stressing the importance of a periodical U-bolt/ suspension inspection in general given the criticality of this system to safe towing. After all they have a few pages dedicated to changing wheels/ lug nut torque and even the dvd to go with it. With the manuals available as pdf, it would take like maybe 5 minutes to edit the original. Like the rest of the posters to this thread, I more or less skimmed over the relevant supplier manuals only when I needed to as most everything in these rigs just requires a little common sense to figure out.

Speaking of common sense, I know this has now been beat to death on this forum with probably in excess of 100 posts but my thought is this: coming into this as a newb in '07 and with my common sense, ie. drawing on life experiences to date, the extent of my knowledge of U-bolts was that they typically hold the rear axle to the spring set on say a truck and it's something you just take for granted that they will never come loose. Has anyone here ever checked the U-bolts on your tow vehicles or other personal vehicles? Doubt it, I never have on any vehicle I've owned.

I'm not worried about anyone on this forum at this point, clearly the point has been made but I feel the info should be passed along and that Keystone could step up to the plate via the manual and through the dealer network via the PDI to new owners that will more than likely do the same as the rest of us and not bother to read all the manuals cover to cover. Since our incident, I've made it a point to bring it up with anyone I've been parked next to.

Failing that, the moderators of this forum could put a "sticky note" on this topic as is done on other forums for topics of high importance - stating simply to "check U-bolt torque at regular intervals per Dexter Axle" as a courtesy to new members instead of a new owner finding out the hard way as several of us have now done.

Again, back in January, neither Robin @ Keystone or Connie @ Dexter had ever heard of this problem or at least that's what I was told nor did it rank as a recall or safety bulletin notice. I had also inquired of the salesman that sold me our 3400 and he had heard of only one other non-5th wheel instance of something like this.

At least in my case, Dexter warrantied the whole shootin' match - emergency temp. repair to get us off the interstate, rig loaded on a lowboy and hauled to the truck repair shop, replaced spring set, 2 new tie plates, full set of U-bolts, new tire and damage to the trailer.

Thank God no one has been hurt or killed so far that we know of. I still shudder when I think of what the results may have been had my incident occurred in the mountains with nowhere to go but over an edge.

That's it for me on the subject.

Regards and safe travels,

Todd

[Lambchop]

Makes me wonder about these trailers......check u-bolts? There is always something we have to watch while we own these units....Hitches & tires also!
What we pay for these units...we shouldn't have to check all this stuff.
When is the last time you checked the u-bolts on your car or truck?

Just a thought this morning...Yes, I will check my u-bolts before we head to FL this month.

Everybody take care...travel safe

Roy

[richfaa]

We will be at the service center later today. I will take the subject up with Darrell and the service center folks. There is also a "tell Keystone" on the keystoe web site that we ALL can use to inform Keystone...they do read it. I did ask on our factory tour if anyone at Montana checked the axles and bolts, etc when they came in the door from Dexter..the answer was no. Perhaps we should be sending our cards and letters to dexter in addition to reading the manual.