Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > TIRES, Montana Tires
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-23-2014, 04:04 AM   #21
fauch
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 431
M.O.C. #11342
This is the DOT regulation go-to for tire installers.
My train of thought is to not have the tires be the weak element in the calculation.
My old 2955RL had D load rated tires on this tag. I kept E rated LTs on it. With 6000 lb axles, the E rated LTs surpassed the axle rating.

[img]/img]
 
fauch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2014, 05:18 AM   #22
dieselguy
Montana Master
 
dieselguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Haysville
Posts: 4,261
M.O.C. #3085
Once again I'd like to remind (all) people here and not just the Keystone owners with mega trailers of this reoccurring issue. Although the OP has one of the heavier trailers and the G614's could possibly be the way to go for him ... there are many who follow the MOC who own one of the many smaller trailers of which G614's are way more tire and cost way more money than you really need. It also needs to be pointed out that many of us are no where near the GVWR during our normal use. Take the time to weigh your trailer and you may see this very point. It continually irritates me to hear the blow and go that G614's are the only round piece of rubber that will suffice to support your rig. Many of us with the smaller rigs use and will continue to use LT's with equal peace of mind. If you're going to swear by something that is not all encompassing ... at least include a disclaimer.
dieselguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2014, 06:57 AM   #23
moutard2
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location:
Posts: 724
M.O.C. #10948
I think you've hit a number of nails on their heads with your comments dieselguy. You make some good points!
moutard2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2014, 09:57 AM   #24
sambam
Montana Master
 
sambam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bridgewater
Posts: 1,196
M.O.C. #13166
Precisely why I'm questioning. Until this thread, I knew nothing about LT tires, reserve capacity and speed ratings. Now I know a little. I know I can tow comfortably with the right LT tire. I also know that I don't travel anywhere near my GVW of the trailer. Getting it weighed is on the list, but right now I know there is no way I'm close. Will the G614's work for me? Of course, but some LT's will too. I am not fulltiming and don't want an expensive tire like the G614 rotting in the driveway 45-50 weeks a year. That's my point. If I can safely run a less expensive tire for the next 3-4 years, I can upgrade to the G614 at that time when I'm ready to do some serious travelling. I also know that some of these LT's aren't much less expensive than the G614 (XPS Rib). If Goodyear will give me some credit towards my Marathons, the 614's are a slam dunk. If not, I have other options. Thanks again to all that shared their opinions. Nothing gathers a crowd like a tire thread!
__________________

2010 Montana 3455SA, Mor/Ryde pin, wet bolts, TST 507, Progressive HW50C, GY G614
2019 Silverado D/A 3500HD LTZ DRW CC
B&W Companion
sambam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2014, 12:11 PM   #25
steelpony5555
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Copperas Cove
Posts: 1,426
M.O.C. #12096
Here is that article about how they test these tires...yes it is long but some good info. This is why I say if your trailer had Marathons on that LT tires are an improvement and will most likely be fine.....




SUMMARY OF FINDINGS & CONCLUSIONS

I found the testing requirements for both the ST and LT tires at the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) webpage.

The testing for each tire is comprised of (1) bead unseating resistance, (2) strength, (3) endurance, and (4) high speed performance.

The testing for (1) bead unseating resistance and (2) strength were identical for tires representative of moderate to heavy 5th wheels and thus no advantage is given to either tire type.

The testing for (3) endurance was found to be significantly different between the ST and LT tires.

Both the ST and LT are put through the same initial pressure, time and load profile. The total profile lasts 34 hours of continuous run time starting at 85% of rated load and ending at 100% of rated load. To further stress the tires, a load range E tire (nominal 80 psi rating) is tested at a reduced pressure of 60 psi to induce additional load on the tire during testing. (This is reasonable that testing should be conservative.)

But now the endurance testing diverges significantly.

The ST tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 50 mph. After that, the ST test is over.

The LT tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 75 mph. This is a 50% increase over the ST and will induce significant additional load and heating on the tire during testing. After that, the LT test is not complete. Next a “Low Inflation Pressure Performance” test is performed for the LT tire only. The tire pressure is decreased to 46 psi and the tire is immediately run for an additional 2 hours at 75 mph and 100% of rated load.

Thus, the LT tire endurance test is drastically more intense than the ST endurance test.

The testing for (4) high speed performance.

The difference in high speed performance testing between a ST and LT tire is significant. Both tires are tested through a 90 minute speed/time profile.

The ST tire is tested 88% of rated load while the LT tire is tested at 85% of rated load. Thus, the loading is 3% higher based on rated load and this slight advantage goes to the ST tire.

However, the LT tire is tested at significantly higher velocities when compared to a ST tire (99 vs. 85 mph maximum speed). This is a 16% advantage to the LT tire.

Thus, again the overall test for the LT is more rigorous than the ST test.

Conclusion:

It is reasonable to conclude that these test requirements force the tire manufacturer to construct an LT tire more substantially than an ST tire. This is also a reasonable explanation for the same size LT tire is rated at a slightly lower maximum load than a ST tire.

And now, for those of you who need to know all the details, read on!

REFERENCES

The references for my evaluation may be found at the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) webpage:
ST tire standard may be found at FMCSA Part 571, subsection 109.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...0163348008f295
LT tire standard may be found at FMCSA Part 571, subsection 139.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...0163348008f2a9
Part 571, subsection 139 references Part 571 subsection 119 which can be found at:
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...0163348008f29d

QUICK NOTES

Each standard for the ST and LT tires has definitions, significant constraints on labeling, etc. that I will not address. There are also tire conditioning (temperature), tire break in, etc. that are the same or similar for ST and LT that I will not address. The details are in the references.

The (3) endurance, and (4) high speed performance tests must not result in tire failure. Tire failure includes visual evidence of tread, sidewall, ply, cord, inner liner, or bead separation, chunking, broken cords, cracking, or open splices, not just a blowout.

TESTING - BEAD UNSEATING RESISTANCE

ST Tire: (reference paragraph S5.2.2)

The tire is mounted horizontally and a vertical load is applied to the tire’s outer sidewall at a rate of 50 mm (2 inches) per minute.

Increase the load until the bead unseats or a specified value is reached.

Repeat the test at least four places equally spaced around the tire circumference.

LT Tire:

Paragraph “S6.6 Tubeless tire bead unseating resistance” references the ST tire procedure noted above.

Conclusion:

The testing for bead unseating resistance is identical for a ST and LT tire.

TESTING - STRENGTH

ST Tire: (reference paragraph S5.3.2.1)

Force a 19 mm (3?4 inch) diameter cylindrical steel plunger with a hemispherical end perpendicularly into the tread rib as near to the centerline as possible, avoiding penetration into the tread groove, at the rate of 50 mm (2 inches) per minute.

Compute the breaking energy for each test point by means of a provided formula.

LT Tire: (reference paragraph S6.5.2)

Each tire shall comply with the requirements of S7.3 of 571.119, which is tires for vehicles weighing 10,000 lb or more. Per S7.3 of 571.119 for our example tire, the testing is the same as the ST tire procedure noted above.

Conclusion:

The testing for strength is identical for a ST and LT tire.

TESTING - ENDURANCE

The following is for a ST or LT tire of less than nominal cross section less than or equal to 295 mm (11.5 inches) which is typical of a 5th wheel application.

ST tire: (reference paragraph S5.4.2)

There are specifications for the contact of the tire mounted on a test axle and steel test wheel after the test that I will not address because they are similar for the ST and LT.

Inflate a load range E to 60 psi. (410 kPa)

Conduct the test at 80 kilometers per hour (km/h)(50 miles per hour) in accordance with the following schedule without pressure adjustment or other interruptions:

The loads for the following periods are the specified percentage of the maximum load rating marked on the tire sidewall:
Time and Percent of rated load
4 hours, 85%
6 hours, 90%
24 hours, 100%

LT Tire: (reference paragraph S6.3.1.2)

“Conduct the test, without interruptions, at the test speed of not less than 120 km/h…” (75 mph)

Inflate a load range E to 60 psi. (410 kPa)

This test uses the same profile as the ST tire.

Immediately following the above sequence perform a Low Inflation Pressure Performance test (reference paragraph S6.4):
This test uses the same tire/wheel as the previous sequence at a reduced pressure.

For a load range E tire the pressure is reduced to 46 psi. (320 kPa)

The same tire/wheel is run an additional 2 hours at the reduced pressure at a speed of 75 mph and 100% of rated load.

Conclusion:

The difference in endurance testing between a ST and LT tire is significant. Both tires are tested through a equivalent loading/time profile. However, the LT tire is tested at this profile at a higher speed (75 vs. 50 mph) and must still endure an additional 2 hour low pressure test without failure. Thus the overall test for the LT is far more rigorous than the ST test.

TESTING - HIGH SPEED PERFORMANCE

ST tire: (reference paragraph S5.5.4)

Load the tire to 88 percent of the tire’s maximum load rating as marked on the tire sidewall. Inflate to 72 psi (500 kPa). Run the test sequentially without interruption at:
75 mph (121 km/h) for 30 minutes
80 mph (129 km/h) for 30 minutes
85 mph (137 km/h) for 30 minutes

LT Tire: (reference paragraph S6.2.1.2.7)

Load the tire to 85 percent of the tire’s maximum load rating as marked on the tire sidewall. Inflate to 72 psi (500 kPa). Run the test sequentially without interruption at:
87 mph (140 km/h) for 30 minutes
93 mph (150 km/h) for 30 minutes
99 mph (160 km/h) for 30 minutes

Conclusion:

The difference in high speed performance testing between a ST and LT tire is significant. Both tires are tested through a speed/time profile. The ST tire is tested 88% of rated load while the LT tire is tested at 85% of rated load. Thus, the loading is 3% higher based on rated load and this slight advantage goes to the ST tire. However, the LT tire is tested at significantly higher velocities (nearly 100 mph!) when compared to a ST tire. This is a 16% advantage to the LT tire. Thus, again the overall test for the LT is more rigorous than the ST test.
steelpony5555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2014, 12:23 PM   #26
bncinwv
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Winfield
Posts: 7,327
M.O.C. #6846
Wonder if there are any legal issues that one should consider in their choice of ST vs LT, trailer weight and axle ratings? Ouch! that is gonna leave a mark!
Bingo
bncinwv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2014, 01:08 AM   #27
mach111
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Fountain Inn
Posts: 209
M.O.C. #13142
Sambam

My Michelins XPS Ribs cost was much less than the Goodyear G 614's. Do some shopping. I agree with your facts that our Monty will be safe with the LT tire. As of now we are still weekend rvers for a few more years then we will be serious rvers upon retirement.

diesel guy--Well said Sometimes overkill is a waste.
mach111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
On LT tires do your edges of the tires wear dpam TIRES, Montana Tires 15 08-09-2015 11:41 AM
Admin: can we do a poll on the Tires, tires post? Ozz Additions & Improvements 14 11-03-2012 04:52 PM
replacing new tires with new tires johnpjpa General Discussions about our Montanas 6 06-28-2011 03:30 AM
Tires and trailer tires RMccord Tow Vehicles & Towing 14 10-18-2007 09:36 AM
Goodyear G614RST tires Vs. Tacoma tires Richard General Discussions about our Montanas 5 06-30-2005 12:22 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.