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Old 07-09-2018, 04:03 AM   #81
Phil P
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Hi

The AC units on these trailers are repairable but because the Freon system has to be open to install service ports the cost is $250 to $350 and that gets the unit in a condition to be checked for problems.

Then if the leak is in one of the units that have “fins” on them the unit becomes uneconomically repeatable.

New unit installed $600.

You would be better off playing Craps in Vegas than trying to repair the AC on your Montana.

The front AC on our Montana was freezing up a sure sign of low Freon.

We just did the last 4 days in the Montana with a heat index of 104 with a new front AC and I think the old one never did work right.

Phil P
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:08 AM   #82
richfaa
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For those going to the fall rally first time or 13th time you will be going on a factory tour. As you are in each assembly point ask your tour guide what the quality control is for that point in the assembly. The tour guides are Keystone employees and mostly members of management. They can give you the answer.

If you have the time take a tour of one of the other brand plants and ask the same question.
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:06 AM   #83
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Thanks CaptnJohn, Very good advice that I hadn't thought of. So far our 2018 HC305 has served us well but for a couple of glitches. Like our old 2010 Mountaineer the supporting structure for the drawers in the kitchen and the bedroom were either too flimsy, used screws that were too short for the drawer slides or were just not finished properly (screws left out). On the Mountaineer the floor in the shower was not supported properly and the flex caused by my standing in it caused the fiberglass around the drain to crack and it drained water into the storage compartment below. Once I had the drain repaired and the attached piping properly installed (that's another contributing factor) I filled the space between the shower floor and the sub-floor below it with urethane foam and that made the support strong enough to stop the flexing that caused the crack.
I strengthened the drawer structures in both the Mountaineer and the new HC as both were failing and the drawers coming out of the rails. The only other peeve on the HC was the sound bar installation below the TV. The "installer" (and I use that word broadly) held it in place by using two long wood screws from the fireplace cabinet underneath, through the shelf above and into the plastic of the soundbar cabinet. It held it in place on one side but the other side partially stripped out and the installation caused an impossible situation when I wanted to change/add some wiring into the back of the sound bar. You see, in order to remove the sound bar or maneuver it so that I could access the back side I would have to remove the fireplace insert to get at the 2 screws. This could have been much more sensibly accomplished had the sound bar been mounted on 2 strips of velcro. It's not so heavy that it would come loose from the velcro and I could have easily gained access to the back of the sound bar wiring. The screws they used protrude abut 2 inches above the shelf the sound bar sits on and go right through the plastic base of the sound bar. No mounting holes, just up through the plastic.

Other than that, so far our HC performed well during our snowbird winter in Palm Springs this past January through March. I love the leveling system and my wife loves the double door refrigerator. The trailer survived the 3500 mile round trip without any external problems contrary to our Mountaineer experience, and part of that I believe was due to me having the MorRyde heavy-duty Shackle and Wet Bolt kit installed on the running gear suspension system.
I found it quaint that MorRyde recommend the installation of the kit (see their web pages) so that you don't get stuck on the side of the road with a suspension system failure. Does that mean if you don't install their heavy duty kit you are likely to have a suspension system failure? That was certainly the (costly) case on the Mountaineer.
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:56 AM   #84
rgparker57
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Time to give credit to Keystone.. We have posted many times on here about the issues on our new Montana High Country 330 RL fifth wheel.. Took to Mike Thompson RV where we purchase it in Feb 2018. Was inspected by the techs at MTRV.. They (keystone) sent an inspector from Keystone and we met him there on the 24th of July....After much back and forth with Keystone they agreed to purchase our Montana High Country fifth back....As I said in past posts, they do build many good products, as evident of how many Montana and other fifth wheels are on the road.. Glad they stepped up here and took good care of us.. Thanks to all for advice in the past and good luck with all your travels....Gary
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:38 AM   #85
Phil P
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richfaa View Post
For those going to the fall rally first time or 13th time you will be going on a factory tour. As you are in each assembly point ask your tour guide what the quality control is for that point in the assembly. The tour guides are Keystone employees and mostly members of management. They can give you the answer.

If you have the time take a tour of one of the other brand plants and ask the same question.

Hi

My wife and I have toured several SOB assembly lines. We have found 2 that actually have a QC system.

One has a build book that follows the unit down the line. The next step is a crew leader determines the last step was completed properly before the next step is started. This only increases cost by the payroll of the “crew leader”. However the wiring, plumbing placement of studs etc are all the same for that model trailer.

The other one uses a QC system that does greatly increase the cost but is much more extensive than the previous one but you get a build book with the trailer that contains the wiring, plumbing, stud placement etc for the trailer. This company will custom build your trailer they quoted a copy of our 3665re Montana and in 2010 only cost $25,000 more than we paid for the trailer and that amounted to only $5,000 more than the trailer cost use after repairing the mistakes Keystone would not repair under warranty.

Phil P
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:58 AM   #86
Phil P
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Hi

During the first 18 months of owner ship of the Montana we had it in several companies selling Keystone trailer to try and get the warranty things repaired. Keystone would not authorize these repairs and insisted we take it back to the selling dealer.

Most of these dealers would just tell us Keystone wouldn’t authorize the repairs. However several dealer service managers said they didn’t have the information to work on the installed systems like the waste tank level indicators etc.

When I produced the manuals I had obtained from these suppliers they were eager to get copies of the them. When I questioned the service manager at Camping World in Robertsdale, AL he told me Keystone would not allow them to contact the manufacturer of these items for tech information.

I found out why when I contacted the manufacture of the waste tank level system and after getting the manual from them l found keystone had installed the tank probes “upside down”

Phil P
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Old 09-12-2018, 05:29 AM   #87
Al D.
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Quality - - Really?

My 2018 345RL back at dealer. First time ever owning a Keystone product. Brand new unit delivered to my house. First thing was delamination on TV / Dinette slide out. Saw no evidence on walk around. Then the facia board over TV / Dinette fell off while moving slide out. Luckily no one was around it and it happened when it did. That's when I discovered the leaky slide out gearboxes and bubbles in the slide out roofs under them.
We haven't even loaded it up yet or spent one night camping.
Contacted Keystone. They said I was still in warranty (No kidding, I just got it) and have dealer submit for approval. There were a few other small items.
I definitely should of done more research beforehand. I would have known about the gearboxes.
We will see what happens. If they react quickly or drag there feet.
Quality?
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:05 AM   #88
richfaa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
Hi

My wife and I have toured several SOB assembly lines. We have found 2 that actually have a QC system.

One has a build book that follows the unit down the line. The next step is a crew leader determines the last step was completed properly before the next step is started. This only increases cost by the payroll of the “crew leader”. However the wiring, plumbing placement of studs etc are all the same for that model trailer.

The other one uses a QC system that does greatly increase the cost but is much more extensive than the previous one but you get a build book with the trailer that contains the wiring, plumbing, stud placement etc for the trailer. This company will custom build your trailer they quoted a copy of our 3665re Montana and in 2010 only cost $25,000 more than we paid for the trailer and that amounted to only $5,000 more than the trailer cost use after repairing the mistakes Keystone would not repair under warranty.

Phil P
That is real quality control .
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:43 AM   #89
webstrang
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Mine also has had problems. Still does. I bought a 2018 HC305Rl and lost facia boards, leaking gearbox motors, roof bubbled up.
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:24 AM   #90
DQDick
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[QUOTE=Phil P;1116115]Hi

During the first 18 months of owner ship of the Montana we had it in several companies selling Keystone trailer to try and get the warranty things repaired. Keystone would not authorize these repairs and insisted we take it back to the selling dealer.

Most of these dealers would just tell us Keystone wouldn’t authorize the repairs. However several dealer service managers said they didn’t have the information to work on the installed systems like the waste tank level indicators etc.

I'm sorry, but those folks have to be giving you a load of crap. While Keystone may have installed stuff upside down the indicators are not unique to Keystone and they know how to work on them.
Keystone has also authorized non-dealers to do warranty work for us and authorized warranty work for us that others have said Keystone denigned for them. It's all about the dealer and whether or not Keystone is getting what they need to make a proper decision and at times you may have to work with Keystone to find out why they denigned it and then get the dealer to prove to Keystone that the problem should be fixed.
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:04 PM   #91
BiigDaddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
Hi

My wife and I have toured several SOB assembly lines. We have found 2 that actually have a QC system.

One has a build book that follows the unit down the line. The next step is a crew leader determines the last step was completed properly before the next step is started. This only increases cost by the payroll of the “crew leader”. However the wiring, plumbing placement of studs etc are all the same for that model trailer.

The other one uses a QC system that does greatly increase the cost but is much more extensive than the previous one but you get a build book with the trailer that contains the wiring, plumbing, stud placement etc for the trailer. This company will custom build your trailer they quoted a copy of our 3665re Montana and in 2010 only cost $25,000 more than we paid for the trailer and that amounted to only $5,000 more than the trailer cost use after repairing the mistakes Keystone would not repair under warranty.

Phil P
Hello Phil,

I've got to ask...what were the two brands. I realize it was 2010, but I'm still interested if you didn't mind.

Thanks!
Ryan
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:31 PM   #92
jeffba
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Hello Phil,

I've got to ask...what were the two brands. I realize it was 2010, but I'm still interested if you didn't mind.

Thanks!
Ryan
SOB1 and SOB2 sorry too easy
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:39 PM   #93
BiigDaddy
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SOB1 and SOB2 sorry too easy
Not going to lie....that was funny!
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:11 PM   #94
mtlakejim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
Hi

My wife and I have toured several SOB assembly lines. We have found 2 that actually have a QC system.

One has a build book that follows the unit down the line. The next step is a crew leader determines the last step was completed properly before the next step is started. This only increases cost by the payroll of the “crew leader”. However the wiring, plumbing placement of studs etc are all the same for that model trailer.

The other one uses a QC system that does greatly increase the cost but is much more extensive than the previous one but you get a build book with the trailer that contains the wiring, plumbing, stud placement etc for the trailer. This company will custom build your trailer they quoted a copy of our 3665re Montana and in 2010 only cost $25,000 more than we paid for the trailer and that amounted to only $5,000 more than the trailer cost use after repairing the mistakes Keystone would not repair under warranty.

Phil P
Let me guess
This unnamed company is in Kansas??
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:08 PM   #95
Phil P
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Let me guess
This unnamed company is in Kansas??

Hi

Yes one of them is and the cost of a copy of the 3665re is now up to $150,000. A $58,000 increase from 2010. I should have had it built in 2010 and burned this white elephant. LOL

I do have to complement the house structure we have now pulled the Montana 3665RE trailer over 100,000 miles and the house is still holding up well. Don’t ask about the frame!!!!

Phil P
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