Over 6 weeks and still waiting for warranty repair

[Gkerlin]

Well it's 6 weeks and counting and I'm still waiting to get my warranty repairs completed.

Keystone was notified on 10/4/2012
Appointment was made and rig dropped off at dealer on 10/11/2012.

Tonights email from dealer stated they are still waiting to get approval from Keystone.

Sounds like Keystone and Lippert are going back and forth as to what or who is responsible but unfortunately I'm stuck in the middle without my rig.

I've had all sorts of promises - Including Mike Mack - Montanas president paying me some lip service but so far that's all its been.... lip service.

My main issues have been:

1 Blown Hydraulic Piston on one of the slides.
2 Excessive tire wear on shoulders. (bad axles?)

It appears that Montana has approved the new piston for the hydraulics but not the axles.

They've asked me to provide scale receipts - which I immediately scanned and emailed - showing that I wasn't overweight, but still they can't seem to just step up to the plate and do the right thing....

I've already had to cancel my autumn trip to the mountains for foliage, now our Thanksgiving trip. I'm not going to cancel my winter...

[HamRad]

Greg,
Sorry to hear you're having trouble getting warranty work done. We just got our rig back after it being in the shop for warranty work. Took them about 2 weeks. We knew it was going to take that long and we were in no rush for it. And we didn't have any major issues to deal with.

Greg, axles are normally not a warranty item. Since your rig is so new they might consider it a covered item. How many miles do you have on the axles? If not too many miles and the tires are severely worn then there must be something major wrong.

We have a 2012 year model too. We have about 4 thousand miles on the rig with absolutely no wear showing on any of the tires. Normally if the axles are causing tire wear they are simply "adjusted" to do away with the problem. They are not normally replaced.

I hope they get things fixed up for you soon. Sure hope you don't miss any more trips!

Happy Trails, Dennis.

[8.1al]

While this may not be the case with you, many,many members faced with very slow service have found out that the culprit is the dealer. Have you contacted Montana recently and asked them what is going on?

[Gkerlin]

Problem seems to be with both the dealer (CW Raleigh) taking forever to look at and diagnose... and then getting Keystone to approve the work.

I spoke to the dealer where I purchased the rig (CW Charleston) and they told me that as the price of the fix increases, the difficulty in getting Keystone to approve the fix goes up commensurately.

My tires have been slowly getting worn down on all edges. There are some threads about this on some other rigs with G614's. There are others out there with G614's who are not having any problems at all so it cant be the tires. In my case although all edges are wearing, the inside edges of both driver side tires are wearing extra fast. I've probably lost 1/4 - 1/3 of the rubber on the inside shoulders of those two tires in 6,000 miles.

The excessive wear on the insides of the two driver side tires seem to indicate a problem with camber and the dealer agrees. Getting Keystone/Lippert/Dexter or who ever to approve is another story.

I was also told that since my G614's are "aftermarket" tires they would not replace them... they would put the Chinabombs back on if they replace the tires.

I explained that (1) The tires were put on the rig new as part of the purchase agreement, and (2) they put these tires on as a factory upgrade if spec'd at purchase. They said whatever tires were on the rig when it left the factory - those are the tires that would go back on. (not the end of THAT story you can be sure)

I received an email from the dealer working on it last night telling me that Keystone still has not approved the work and he was going to be off Monday so it will be tuesday before someone gets back on it if Keystone has not approved it by then.

Now when (if) Keystone approves the axles... how long would it take to get them shipped to the dealer? A couple of weeks perhaps. This is at best going to be a couple of months to get this problem fixed.

[Gkerlin]

Oh.... and Charlie.. I have't contacted Montana in the last couple of weeks. I'm trying to walk that fine line by not being a PITA while at the same time not getting tossed into the forgotten heap.

That's probably a good idea at this point.

[1retired06]

Having been a repeat Montana owner for over 10 years, it is my impression Keystone's success has gone to their head, and is reflected in higher pricing ( where best bang for the buck was a big selling point historically), more warranty issues from the production line, and pushoff from dealers and Keystone Customer Service. We are currently thinking of trading (no problems with our unit!) and are looking at other product lines for the first time in a long time.

[Gkerlin]

Mike,

This is my second Keystone. My first was another line of theirs. I "moved up" to Montana because it was touted as their top-of-the-line Unit

My other had some minor warranty issues and I repaired them all myself. Because of the tire wear problem that I'm having is a bit out of my "wheelhouse" to fix, I had to go thru the process and have been terribly disappointed.

A bigger source of disappointment to me however is in myself, and the research that I did before buying the Montana. I think if I knew then - what I know now - I would have gone with one of the other brands that I was considering. I think the flash, and glitz, and the price blinded me a bit and I forgot that you get what you pay for.

Look around this forum and see how many guys have put new suspensions on their rigs. Put on Independent Torsion bar suspensions, disc brakes, bigger tires. Exactly what I'm thinking of doing now. A unit that is marketed as top of the line should have these suspensions, brakes, and tires already. I mean the suspension is the most fundamental part of our units. It's what makes them able to go from point a to point b. Ours are heavy units. They should ride on a frame, suspension and tires that can adequately and safely support that load over time while protecting the integrity of the unit it is carrying

We can argue about the suspension.... Some might think the current set up is fine. I think it might be adequate but it's certainly not top of the line or overbuilt in any stretch.

But look at the tires... I think only a few would argue that the standard tires put on our units are anything but junk.

This forum is loaded with stories of people who have upgraded tires and wheels just to get to a point where they feel safe or confident pulling that load down the road. I don't think that when you buy a "top-of-the-line" unit you should have to then go out and spend thousands to put it in a long haul road worthy condition.

JMHO

[steelpony5555]

If they already have your scale weights one would think it would be a simple thing to locate someone who does alignments on trailers. That would tell them a lot and possibly even fix the problem without the high cost of replacing the axles. I agree with you though the whole suspension system on these rigs is pretty lame for the weights. If it was a "camper" unit just going to the lake a couple times a year ok, but they tout these rigs as the upper crust, definitly not set up for long distant travel. I hope they come to their minds and step up in the name of customer service and spend a couple hundred bucks to at least get a idea what's going on with the axles.

[Gkerlin]

I'm pretty sure that they did all of the measurements and said the alignment was ok, that was why the dealer was looking to replace axles. Camber adjustment on our axles is not a task for the weak of heart.

I don't have the whole story though so I'm still a bit in the dark.

[1retired06]

Asking for scale receipts is a bogus delay tactic, since most of us dont have that documentation and certainly cannot be obtained if the dealer has your unit on site.

[Gkerlin]

Ha... well if that's what they were doing it didn't work very well for them.

I'm a pretty organized person so I had my truck alone scale ticket, and my combined with separate axles, emailed to them in a matter of minutes.

[simonsrf]

quote:Originally posted by Gkerlin

Mike,

This is my second Keystone. My first was another line of theirs. I "moved up" to Montana because it was touted as their top-of-the-line Unit

My other had some minor warranty issues and I repaired them all myself. Because of the tire wear problem that I'm having is a bit out of my "wheelhouse" to fix, I had to go thru the process and have been terribly disappointed.

A bigger source of disappointment to me however is in myself, and the research that I did before buying the Montana. I think if I knew then - what I know now - I would have gone with one of the other brands that I was considering. I think the flash, and glitz, and the price blinded me a bit and I forgot that you get what you pay for.

Look around this forum and see how many guys have put new suspensions on their rigs. Put on Independent Torsion bar suspensions, disc brakes, bigger tires. Exactly what I'm thinking of doing now. A unit that is marketed as top of the line should have these suspensions, brakes, and tires already. I mean the suspension is the most fundamental part of our units. It's what makes them able to go from point a to point b. Ours are heavy units. They should ride on a frame, suspension and tires that can adequately and safely support that load over time while protecting the integrity of the unit it is carrying

We can argue about the suspension.... Some might think the current set up is fine. I think it might be adequate but it's certainly not top of the line or overbuilt in any stretch.

But look at the tires... I think only a few would argue that the standard tires put on our units are anything but junk.

This forum is loaded with stories of people who have upgraded tires and wheels just to get to a point where they feel safe or confident pulling that load down the road. I don't think that when you buy a "top-of-the-line" unit you should have to then go out and spend thousands to put it in a long haul road worthy condition.

JMHO

[s]Mike,[/s]Greg,(on edit)
We lived (existed) in our 2006 Montana for six years. There is not one single statement you made above that we do not agree with whole-heartedly. You said it just perfect......and we could add a whole lot more.

We had issues with Keystone's installed components. Using our VIN, the company could not even tell us what parts were used to construct our home. They do not catalog, or inventory items during assembly. (real handy for replacing a black tank)

Four months ago, we bought an SOB, we had some problems, but when the manufacturer was contacted about the dealer's inability to fix the problems, the manufacturing company sent one of their company mechanics from California. He drove to Washington (11 hours) to work on and fix our pending issues. This mechanic gave us his personal phone number and email address, told us that any single concern we had in the future, he would personally be responsible for and he would make sure they were taken care of as soon as possible.

You stepped up and thought you were buying quality....and quality you should have received. There are lots of people learning and speaking out about how Keystone became the number one trailer manufacturer, and how their profit margin effected them adversely.

Glad to hear you are happy with your new rig, we're real happy with ours too.

[Gkerlin]

[quote]quote:Originally posted by simonsrf

Originally posted by Gkerlin

Mike,



Mike,
We lived (existed) in our 2006 Montana for six years. There is not one single statement you made above that we do not agree with whole-heartedly. You said it just perfect......and we could add a whole lot more.....


Glad to hear you are happy with your new rig, we're real happy with ours too.

Hi Robbie, That previous post was me..(Greg) replying to Mike. I don't want to get anyone in trouble for my comments.

And thanks for the words of encouragement. I see you are signed up for the big circle in Q so if I get my wheels back by then hopefully my 2012 Montana will stand up to actually being moved long enough for another road trip to Arizona from the East Coast and we'll see you there.

[Irlpguy]

A year ago we did what many, many Montana owners have done or thought they were doing, and that was to trade our SOB believing we were upgrading to higher quality and a much better engineered and manufactured product.

It is very discouraging to read the posts and the troubles people are having, we have had our own problems and are now waiting for warranty work to be done on things that should not need work in the first year on the road. Gkerlin has eloquently said what many of us are feeling.

On our second trip with our previous SOB we had a tire problem, to the extent the metal braids were exposed on the tire. It did not blow and we were fortunate. I contacted our dealer and within an hour he had emailed me a contact name at customer service and with whom I spoke that same day. The following day 2 new tires were on their way to me at no charge, I was given the name of a frame shop in Phoenix and since we were not going that way another one was provided in Las Vegas. I was told to have them adjust the frame or whatever was necessary and to call them for a purchase order for payment.

The problem turned out to be my fault or lack of knowledge and as we made our way toward Vegas I monitored the tires every 50 – 100 miles. There appeared to be no problem and when I arrived in LV I cancelled the appointment I had for the next day explaining what I had found. I contacted the factory rep and advised we were going to be passing through the city where this brand was built and we were immediately invited to visit and tour the factory.

I would not hesitate to purchase another unit of that OB if they had what I was looking for in the size I wanted. Two years or more down the road I hope to be able to say that about Keystone but what I read here in these forums does not bode well.

On a unit the price of the Montana, I expect any problem occurring within the first year of ownership, to be repaired/replaced by the manufacturer and done so in a timely manner. The cost of these units justifies that expectation.

I am hopeful that Keystone will live up to all our expectations, if they do not, then they do not deserve to be the “top gun” in RV product and sales.

[Wayne and Carolyn Mathews]

Greg, I'd contact someone directly at Keystone. We had a similar experience that dragged on for months and months simply because we didn't want to irritate the dealer with calls asking when our rig would be ready (we were calling every 2 weeks, which apparently was ruffling feathers at the dealership). First the dealer said Keystone was the holdup because it was dragging its feet about okaying the warranty repairs. Then the dealer said Keystone was "out of stock" on many of the parts needed for the repairs.

We finally contacted Keystone directly and, you guessed it, Keystone had NEVER received any paperwork or phone calls from our dealer about our repairs. Keystone got the dealer's name and number, and within 2 hours called us back to say the repairs would be underway immediately and completed quickly; all parts were in stock and always had been. The dealer was the problem, not Keystone.

Had we not been so passive and contacted Keystone after a month went by without repairs being made, we'd have had our rig back in a timely manner. We were too nice! Contact Keystone now.

Carolyn

[1retired06]

Dealers often do not like to do warranty work because of the billable hours allowed by Keystone. They make much higher profits on non-warranty work.

[DQDick]

We had several serious warranty issues and always contacted Keystone first. We were never near the dealer that sold us the unit and all of the repairs were done immediately and in a quality manner. Once Keystone even authorized a non-dealer to make a serious repair because we were in Deming, NM and there wasn't a dealer anywhere near us. Maybe we were just lucky, but from now on, even for a non-warranty repair we call Keystone first and have them make an appointment for us.

[Gkerlin]

The only thing that I did not do was have Keystone make the appointment for me. I called Keystone first because this was the first Warranty work that I've ever requested. They gave me three names of dealers I could take it to. The closest one would not work on it because I bought it from CW and they said they would not do work on rigs purchased from CW,

After calling Keystone to report that - they acted real shocked and that was about it... Otherwise they did nothing. I called the second one they gave me - it was going to be a month before they could look at it. So... I called the nearest CW which was 2 1/2 hrs from the house. They said they would get me an appointment for a week later. Thats where I took it... 7 weeks ago on Thanksgiving.

After a couple of weeks I wrote and called Keystone asking for help - asked if they could either speed up the dealer for find me somewhere nearby that could do the work sooner. Eventually I got up to Mike Mack the President. He called me a couple of days later, listened to my problem and said he would have someone from Customer Service contact me and "take care of me".

A day or two later I got an email from someone in Customer Service (I wont mention the name but I've seen her replies in Trailer life refusing service to other Keystone Owners). Her email was the basic "we regret you are having trouble, we stand behind our product, if we can be of any further assistance....."

So now I'm started to get PO'd. I write her back and say "that's it? no help? and not even an apology for the problems and delays I'm having.... for the fact I had to take it 2.5hrs away and am still waiting for repairs/"

Her response was" When I stated “we regret”, that was an apology sir."

The dealer has told me that Keystone keeps coming up with more questions. some of them they came back to me for answers. This has been going on for weeks. This dealer is not without fault. I know they are backed up and I'm not getting their uninterrupted attention. But the dealership and the factory should be a team. I shouldn't have to call the manufacturer to check on the dealer and vise versa.

The bottom line is today I'm giving up. I throw up the white flag. I sent the dealer an email last night telling them to go ahead and fix the problems that Keystone has already approved. (two slide seals and a blown hydraulic piston), Let me know when it will be done as I want to come and get it as soon as possible.

I told them to forget the axles and the tire wear. I called MorRyde yesterday and as soon as I get a date to get my rig back I'm making an appointment, going to drive it 16hrs up to Indiana, and have them put in the Independent Suspension with disc brakes. It's probably what they should be putting on these rigs in the first place.

[1retired06]

Very sorry about the runaround you have gotten from Keystone. It did not used to be that way. I think a contributing factor is that the old Senior Montana Bosses who built up the Montana line have left Keystone and started up Prime Time RV, (where they are building a darn good looking fiver under the name Sanibal) leaving a weaker team in place. I also think their success has gone to their heads and is reflected in recent quality issues and service pushbacks. In the company I worked for, in my second career, a customer response such as you got would have earned the employee an immediate termination.

[DQDick]

Very sorry things are going that way for you, Mike is probably right on what is happening. You will like the IS and disk brakes and I told Keystone at the Rally that I would never buy a Monty from them again until both are available, at least as options! Why would I want to go backwards?