do i need to take my lift off? - Montana Owners Club

timbuktu78 · 06-01-2005, 05:56 AM

i have a 2005 2500 CTD SB w/ a 4" suspension lift. i just bought a 2006 3400rl. my bedrails sit at 61". i have been asking around for about a month to find out if i will be safe towing the 5er, but i can't seem to find anyone who knows for sure. one person i talked to has a ford f350 LB with a 4" lift and he is my exact height. he tows a 2005 38 ft raptor and has absolutely no problems. i'm not sure if this is a fair comparison since i'm not sure if the raptor is the same hitch height and he drives a long bed.

another member of the forum, zzuroweste, who is a good friend of mine, has and 2004.5 3500 CTD LB w/ a leveling kit and he just bought a 3400rl too. however, he has already towed his 5er. we measured our bedrails and i was exactly 4 inches taller. he mentioned on his drive down to florida w/ the 5er there were a couple of places where the 5er came really close to hitting his bedrails.

when i put the lift on, i wasn't considering buying a 5er. but now that i have it, i really would like to leave it on since taking it off would be one more expense. but if anyone knows for sure if i would not be safe, please let me know or if there are other safety issues.

one other thing i've thought about is since my truck is a SB, i am definitely putting airbags on it before i pick up the 3400rl. with the airbags i won't squat, but how is the weight distribution going to affect my handling? technically, the airbags are supposed to keep the angle of the front traction bars and driveline the same, hence, keeping the same weight on the front tires regardless of the load on the back end. just something else i've thought about.

rlwhit · 06-01-2005, 08:50 AM

I would say yes to removal. If you can not adjust the hitch or the pin box so the 5er will tow level. It is important that the 5th wheel or any trailer is in a level mode. Others may tell you why. Have fun with your new rig.

Montana_1240 · 06-01-2005, 04:21 PM

I'm with rlwhit.

But you'd first want to measure the height of the pin box on your fiver, and see how it conforms to the height of the hitch plate in your bed. You don't want to have your fiver uneven while towing. It will affect wear on the tries, the suspension, and the braking on it.

Plus, even if you can lower the hitch to make it level, make sure you still have clearance between the nose of your fiver and the bed rails. I think about 6" is standard to be sure it won't strike when you leave a very uneven site.

It sounds as though you know the purpose for the air bags. So many people think they allow one to carry more weight. They don't change the TV's GCVWR. Just make it appear as though being overweight is fine.

Good luck. Even if it means more expense, or work, towing safely is worth a lot!

Steve

Steve and Mozell · 06-01-2005, 05:15 PM

timbuktu78,
I can't say for sure, but you may be ok. I have a 2005 3400rl. My truck is an '02 F350 longbed. It's stock in back (other than 35" tires), but I just measured and I am 59 1/4" to my bedrails. I have had no problems towing and the trailer appears to be level when hitched up. I still have right about 6" clearance as well. Enjoy your new trailer.

sreigle · 06-01-2005, 05:59 PM

Ours is an F250 without the lift kit but it is 4x4 OffRoad and 17" wheels. I just measured ground to bedrails and it's 54 1/2 inches at the rear corners. Quite a bit lower than yours. Our Montana rides level with a little over 8 inches of clearance. I think "conventional wisdom" is that 5 1/2 inches is the minimum acceptable clearance but when we had that clearance on a truck/fw combo a few years ago I found it a bit uncomfortable.

There is adjustment remaining in both the hitch and the pinbox to raise the nose but I think you're going to be tight and could end up nose high on the Montana. The 3400 has the lightest pinweight of all Montanas. Running nose high would make the pinweight even less. I'd be concerned about sacrificing some stability as a result.

Because the pinweight is very light (relatively) on the 3400 I'd guess there's a good chance you won't need airbags to maintain level on the truck. The bags won't hurt but you might not need to add them.

As far as I know, all Montanas of a given year are the same height in the pin area, other than for pinbox adjustments. From your post I assume you do not have possesion of the 3400. Is there any way your dealer will allow you to at least hitch up to a Montana to see what you're up against?

timbuktu78 · 06-01-2005, 07:02 PM

steve and mozell, it sounds as though you and i are very close in bed rail height. is your pin box adjusted at all? i went to my local montana dealership (not where i bought my 3400) and backed my truck up to an 04 3400. i don't have the hitch mounted in my bed yet, so the guys at the dealership measured how high the hitch should be and we adjusted the 5er to the approximate height it would be if it were hooked up. after all that, i appeared i had about 5 or six inches between the 5er and the rails. that was with the pin box on the middle setting. they said we could adjust the pin box down giving me another 2 inches. we all stepped back, and it looked like the 3400 was pretty level. it seems this would be a fair guesstimate to see if my truck would work, and we all agreed (the guys at the dealership and i) that my truck would be okay. however, i'm not sure if that was a real fair approximation.

i wish i could have the exact measurements from the hitch plate and measure the pin box, but i don't have the hitch mounted yet. i live in salt lake city but purchased the 3400 from loveallrv's in columbia, missouri. i'm getting everything installed on the truck (hitch, plug in the bed, and trailer brakes) when i get to missouri at the end of this month when i pick up the 5er. i have thought about getting the hitch installed here, but when i called the local dealership in slc, they wanted to charge me $1,200 to install everything and the dealership in MO is only charging $500. so that's a no brainer where i'm actually going to get it done.

furthermore, i called the local dealership and talked to a guy in the service dept and asked him about the height of my bedrails. he said he thought i would be okay. they have seen trucks with the bedrails at a height of 62"-65" towing. he said up to 62" would be okay, but it gets a little hairy when it's higher than that. i also called the service dept at the dealership in MO and they said they prefer stock trucks and recommended i take the lift off. but they also said they haven't seen any trucks as tall as mine as a TV. i am more inclided to believe the local dealership since they have experience with taller TV, but i would really like to hear from more people who have TV's w/ bedrails similar to my height...thanks steve and mozell and thanks to everyone for their inputs, i really do appreciate it. if anyone else has a similar story to mine, please let me know. i much rather be safe towing than cut corners and not spend the money to remove the lift and buy smaller tires (i currently have 37" toyos that are rated for 3,500+ lbs on 18" wheels). please continue to give me your thoughts or input!

timbuktu78 · 06-01-2005, 07:08 PM

oh, one more thing. if i do need to take my lift off, i really need to do it while in slc since i have guys here at a local tire/wheel shop (they installed my lift) will do it for a great price. it would be much much cheaper doing it here than chancing it and getting to MO and hooking up the 5er and finding out i need to do it. they guys here won't charge me much to put my truck back to stock and they will give me a heck of a deal on smaller tires. that's why i'm trying to figure everything out before i hit the road to MO.

timbuktu78 · 06-01-2005, 07:29 PM

sorry for the giant picture. it was my first try at posting it on the website. at least y'all can all see what i'm dealing with.

sreigle · 06-01-2005, 07:56 PM

Tim, if dropping the pinbox buys you some room over the bedrails and doesn't put the Montana more than two inches high in the front I think I'd be inclined in favor of the room over the bedrails. That might give you some breathing room to get it home, at least. The pinbox can be dropped at the dealer in Missouri when you take delivery, if needed. By the way, Loveall's in Columbia has been around a long time and is considered a very good dealer from what I've heard. I have no personal experience with them, however.

It sounds like you'll be going through Kansas City when you go to pick up the trailer and/or on the way home with it. Independence, MO, is a suburb of Kansas City, on the east side of the city. We'll be at Campus RV Park in Independence from this coming Sunday, through July 4th. If you have the time, stop in or give us a holler and we'll meet you somewhere for lunch or a cup of coffee or whatever. If you need to make tracks to get the rig home, we understand that, too. The offer is open if you have the opportunity.

timbuktu78 · 06-02-2005, 10:09 AM

steve and vicki, i would love to meet y'all, but unfortunately i won't be heading back to slc after delivery. i'm moving to pensacola, florida where i'll be full timing @ naval air station p-cola. if y'all are ever down my way, holler at me and we can meet up.

i wish there was some way i could do all the measurements before i get to missouri, but i don't think that is possible. i really don't want to, but i'll probably end up taking the lift off just to be on the safe side. i just wish there was someway to know for sure if i don't have to take the lift off. above steve and mozell said there rail height is very close to mine and they don't have any probs...that gives me hope, but i don't want to chance it. this is pretty frustrating not knowing what to do for sure!

Steve and Mozell · 06-02-2005, 10:59 AM

My pinbox is not adjusted. However, I did raise hitch two notches (about 2") after towing a couple times. I had similar concerns waiting for the arrival of my trailer. I had previously installed a 2.5" leveling kit in the front of the truck and had the bigger wheels and tires. My dealer assured me it should be fine. I had them install the hitch and hook up the 3400rl the first time. I have had no problems. I have since added airbags on the truck. The truck sat level without the trailer, but had just a slight sag in back when hooked up. Something else to watch for may be tranny temps. I know mine ran a bit warm towing and I attributed this to the larger wheels and tires. I have since added an auxillary tranny cooler. I haven't towed since adding this, but think it should help.

jackw87 · 06-02-2005, 11:29 AM

it sounds like the dif in hitch instalation price was a slide hitch and a non sliding hitch it with the short wheel bace you should het a slide hitch manual of auto butit may save the back of your cab most dealers just try to install the cheepest hitch if you don't make sure

timbuktu78 · 06-02-2005, 01:01 PM

steve, are most hitches adjustable like yours? what kind of hitch do you have?

since our trucks are very similar in height, is there an advantage of having a long bed or is there a disadvantage of me having a shortbed? i know i have to install a glider hitch to keep from hitting my back window, but other than that are there any disadvantages or anything i need to watch out for? thanks for the heads up on the tranny, i'm assuming yours is an auto. mine is a 6 spd manual. i don't think i need to worry about tranny temps as much, do i?

i've been doing a lot of research on the my height situation, as you can see from my million questions, but this is what i'm leaning towards and please give me your thoughts on this. i priced how much it would cost to take my lift off and do a leveling kit w/ 35's, after les schwab (the install guys) bought my 37's, it would cost around $800. i think i can leave my truck as is, do airbags w/ onboard compressor and get diamond plated bed rails powercoated black. this way if while on uneven road the 5er does hit the rails, it won't damage the truck. and hopefully not damage the 5er either. and if i can adjust the hitch like you steve and adjust the pinbox, i think i will be okay. i'm sure i will have to tow a little slower this way, but a small price to pay.

sreigle · 06-02-2005, 01:35 PM

I think you're addressing Steve and Mozell since my truck is about 6 inches shorter than yours. I would like to note that while there is no truck height disadvantage that I know of between shortbed and longbed, you will probably want a slider hitch, as noted, to avoid cab to truck crashes. That slider may well add some height to the hitch. I know my hitch sits on top of the slider but I'm not sure if the slider just replaced some other base. It's been a long time since I bought this hitch and slider. I'm using the Reese with KwikSlide. Some hitches are adjustable but probably not all.

Steve and Mozell · 06-02-2005, 05:59 PM

I would have to listen to Steve Reigle as to some hitches being adjustable, but probably not all. This is the first 5th wheel I have owned so I'm not that familiar with the other hitches. My dealer installed a "Hitchhiker" brand hitch. I didn't read carefully enough earlier to see that you have a manual trans. You should be fine there. Maybe doing the 35's and leveling kit would be a good idea just for a bit more peace of mind. By the way, I have been thrilled with the way my truck tows this rig. I previously had a 26' travel trailer and the Montana is a dream to tow compared to the old trailer. I also just installed the airbags w/onboard compressor. Its a really nice setup. Good luck.
Steve

timbuktu78 · 06-03-2005, 07:04 AM

steve and mozell, one more question for you: are the axles flipped on your 3400?

thanks,
tim

Steve and Mozell · 06-03-2005, 03:51 PM

Tim
I did not have to flip the axles on our 3400. The trailer still sits just as it did when it left the dealer's lot. You are really going to enjoy your new trailer.
Steve

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