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Old 10-29-2007, 03:02 PM   #41
HughM
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On the way to the mini montanta rally in Ft.Gaines, GA I stopped for diesel at a shell station on 231 South in Montgomery AL. Sign on road said $3.09. I started pumping and quickly realized the price per gallon was $9.85 A GALLON!!!!!!
I stopped the pump at $5.85 and the clerk says the pump was set at $9.85 a gallon and they can't change it!!!
Needles to say I paid the $5.85 and went down the road.
Lesson: look at the price on the pump not the sign.
Hugh
 
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Old 10-29-2007, 03:05 PM   #42
mail2us
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If you're heading from San Jose directly to a middle east country or Venzuela, maybe a $1 a gal. Have a safe trip!
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Old 10-29-2007, 04:22 PM   #43
dsprik
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I will just throw this out as JMHO only. I know some may not agree with me and I certainly am not trying to offend anyone who has posted here, BUT...

We are AMERICANS (and Canadians). We are not Europeans, Middle Eastern peoples, Africans, Indians, Asians, Chinese, Russians. Not even South Americans. We are American and Canadian. Our demographics, geographics, economics are different - even radically different - from the rest of the world. Our lifestyle is totally different. Therefore, what hurts us deeply as a culture, many times has little effect (and not the same effect) on another culture.

We as a culture will be greatly affected by $4.00-$5.00/gal fuel. European, Chinese, etc cultures are not going to be hurt nearly as badly as us. Yes, I know we will adapt. We would also adapt from a Nuclear Winter. What's your point??? My dad has a theory that we will all be on horseback in the next 20 years...

Did you ever get that silly lecture from your dad at the dinner table that you needed to be thankful for the food on your plate because of all the starving Ethiopians in Africa? I feel the same way about this. I don't care about how much anyone else on another continent is paying for fuel. My only concern regarding this is my own country and family, and how THEY will be affected in 12-24 months from now on their heating, grocery, fuel bill, etc.

Don't get me wrong - I have plenty of compassion for Darfur and other atrocities that are going on. I just don't think we should be feeling better about our fuel prices just because of what someone else - who will never have any affect on me or my family - is paying for their fuel on the other side of the planet (or the moon, or on Mars).

This country is going to be in pain if this ominous trend continues. I do not, and I will not feel more complacent/content/at peace with our increasing fuel prices because other cultures are paying "$100.00 a gal".

And that speech at the family dinner table didn't really endear the Ethiopian people to me either. There... that's off my chest after 45 years...
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Old 10-30-2007, 04:04 AM   #44
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I remember my daughter packing up her meal one night and telling my wife -- 'here - mail it to them' after she got a similar dinner table lecture. Last time I heard my wife say that. What amazes me today is the lack of 'congressional' concern about the fuel prices -- as mentioned previously, fuel is a major factor in everything we purchase (and grow for that matter). It will have a big impact on our economy in the coming years, much more than just on our travel and vacation plans.
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Old 10-30-2007, 04:08 AM   #45
richfaa
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Well Dave there you go..Interjecting rational thinking and common sense into a debate. I have also noted that I do not purchase my fuel in Spain, Italy, France, Mexico or for that matter anywhere in Europe, South America or Asia..Not even Canada...but right here in the good old USA and strangly enough it is the price of fuel at the station on the corner that really concernes me and the impact that high energy prices have on us right here in N, Ridgeville, Ohio.
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Old 10-30-2007, 06:17 AM   #46
HamRad
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I think it is human nature to want to deal ONLY with that which directly effects us. But when we do this we are not recognizing that in today's world what happens in ANY other part of our world may have a direct impact on us. We must be concerned because we are all connected.

Please consider what one of our First Americans said:

This we know. The earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth. Whatever befalls the earth, befalls the sons of the earth. This we know. All things are connected like the blood which unites one family. All things are connected.

- (Chief Seattle)
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Old 10-30-2007, 10:55 AM   #47
skypilot
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Mary Kay and Dennis(HamRad):Chief Seattle was wise, that is for sure.

Everyone: However, I don't think the intent here is to say we live in a vacumn, what I think some are trying to say is 'just because the Europeans pay XXXX dollars a gallon, so should we!'. If we can buy or pump crude at a lower price, then we should realize those lower prices at the pump. So many of our newscasters, legislators, and 'authority figures' are saying 'Well, they pay XXXX so we can too!'. While I'm not saying that we can't pay that, I'm saying -- 'why should we?' In the local area we have two (2) name brands available -- BP (British Petroleum) and Shell (Royal Dutch Shell). BP and Shell, while US companies as listed, are all part of larger, foreign groups. In fact, Shell's US President was appointed to that position coming from the Shell Groups corporate offices in 'The Hague, Netherlands' where he was the 'groups Human Resource Director'. The number 3 and 4 positions listed on the Shell website are also coming from London, Bulgaria, and elsewhere overseas. Now this is my own opinion but I really have to wonder what loyalties these 'leaders' have to the American public and pricing.


So, all that said, Yes, we need to be aware of what others pay for a product, and yes, it is vitally important that we realize we are not alone on this Earth, but in my own feeble mind, the ultimate issue is -- While I can afford to buy the product here and now, what about tomorrow?!! The soap box is being removed - thank you all for letting me speak my piece.
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Old 10-30-2007, 11:14 AM   #48
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It is called the global marketplace and if supply and demand are allowed to work we would be paying a lot less than we are now. Stopping multi-national oligarchies from artificially controlling supply is something our legislators need to do now. They also have to promote technology to improve the efficiency of the internal combustion engine and reduce its environmental impact.

I did not mean to get anyone upset. The world is a small place and getting much smaller. Hey maybe seeing abject poverty along with those "talks" my mom gave me have made me feel a little bit guilty about complaining when I have to shell out a few more bucks to maintain my lifestyle. Of course that is my problem. My real complaint is with the oil pirates. I watched a program last night which divulged that they are hiring the same advertising firm and scientists who denied smoking causes cancer to argue that burning fossil fuels has no impact on global warming.
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Old 10-30-2007, 11:53 AM   #49
richfaa
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We of course understand we now live in a global economy.We of course understand that what happens in other parts of the world, particularly the energy producing nations affects us.But what CONCERNS us , the individual, on a day to day basis, is what the impact of those things happening has on us. My cousins in Sicily pay 6.50 US for a gallon of fuel and tell me that 3 or 4$ a gallon is cheap..Most of them ride bicycles or drive tinker toy cars and live in a social and economic culture far different than us.Oil dropped $3.15 today..it is now only 90.38 per barrel... Why don't I feel better????
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Old 10-30-2007, 12:23 PM   #50
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Dennis, I knew the global economy point would be brought up. I agree. My point, however, that I need to address my immediate local situation before trying to solve the rest of the world's problem. I agree that the fact that China and India suck all the spare oil they can get their hands on is a worldwide problem and we must address that.

By reading about, and contemplating on, how much more someone is paying for fuel, what emotional response or point is that? Should we feel sad for those others? Should we feel better about our budget getting crunched? I really don't feel any of those emotional response by perusing through the rest of the world's retail gasoline/diesel prices. Don't get me wrong - I am very thankful for what we have and I have total faith in the future. I just don't like the "staving Ethiopians" approach.

Remember, This is just my rambling, humble opinion (JMRHO)
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Old 10-30-2007, 01:09 PM   #51
Jerzy54
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Yes Europeans are paying 70% tax on every liter of fuel they buy. But most of these taxes are returned to them in free health insurance, education and other social services for which we have to pay additional taxes on the top of the other taxes. Our government and business carve our dependency on using cars, in lack of the other means to get from point "A" to point "B". I found that allowing truckers to add fuel surcharges to their deliveries is a way of stabbing the rest of the citizens in the back. On the other hand those truckers do not understand that all that extra money they are getting from surcharges won't pay for all the price increases on every item they buy.
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Old 10-31-2007, 02:00 PM   #52
richfaa
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hummm 94.53 oil today 2.34 gallon of gas on the commodities market..This is getting serious guys. Look for another huge increase at the pump in the next few days. I am still predicting that this is a over valued market driven by speculation and greed and the bottom will fall out soon.If not we are near the can't afford the winter trip. At 4.00 per gallon + diesel we go nowhere.
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Old 10-31-2007, 02:22 PM   #53
Charlie
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Rich-
I agree with you that the market is over valued and driven by greed and speculation. Without cooperation from the oil companies and the government we will continue be at the mercy of OPEC.

What I would like to know is why a country that has as much coal reserves as the US can not set up some type of program for gasoline and diesel extraction from coal. Germany had developed this technology as far back as WWII to supplement oil for their war machine. Maybe it was because Hitler was not concerned with any environmental concerns and did not worry about sulphur, but we have the technology today to remove the sulphur.

I'm feel that the expense of producing a gallon of fuel from coal is not as cheap as refining it from oil and here in lies the problem.....As long as the "crack spread" is what it is now why should the oil companies change any thing they are doing. Maybe they want to use up all the world's oil reserves before tapping into the coal???
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Old 10-31-2007, 03:41 PM   #54
richfaa
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The oil companies know well at what pricing point the consumer cuts back, the demand drops and the price of oil goes down. Note that although the price of oil is near 100.00 a barrel the price of a gallon of fuel has not increased accordingly and the oil companies huge profits are not as huge as they were..they are absorbing the cost to keep fuel prices within the range that the consumer will tolerate. In order for the oil companies to continue to show a huge profit the consumer must continue to buy..The consumer is running out of dollars ..When fueling my bus in the A M at a large gas station, with gas at 299.9 per gallon I see the working class folk putting 3.00 worth of gas in the car.Something has got to give soon and I predict a huge bust. This is so depressing...we need good news..
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Old 10-31-2007, 04:21 PM   #55
Charlie
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Bingo-
Thanks for throwing the number out there. I did not know where the break point is but I feel the environmental thing is the main factor.
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Old 10-31-2007, 04:35 PM   #56
bigmurf
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What ever happened to the oil shale in Western Colorado? Exxon put millions into the project and then walked away.
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Old 10-31-2007, 04:40 PM   #57
dsprik
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I read this today on CNN.

Good news: This new procedure could unlock oil reserves several times the reserves of Saudi Arabia.

Bad news: This is still a production operation strictly controlled by a major oil company. Anyone euphoric about that???

Oil Shale Report
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Old 10-31-2007, 04:52 PM   #58
bncinwv
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Just a hunch, but I will betcha the Sierra Club and the other enviros will be on this like quick. Oil Shales have to be mined just like coal does. Like I said, at some point (personal bankruptcy) this country will hopefully get their priorities straight. Sounds to me like retirement keeps creeping farther and farther away. Oh well, on the GOOD side Thanksgiving and Destin is only a couple of weeks and a couple hundred dollars of diesel fuel away.
Bingo
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Old 10-31-2007, 05:25 PM   #59
Okie Guy
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Well gasoline is just over $3.00 a gallon here in some parts of Oklahoma City. Diesel is now at $2.95 at Flying J. There was a pipeline blow out on the Gulf Coast today so I am sure the price will go up again in the morning. I can't wait to see what this will do to the food prices. Milk is already $4.70 a gallon. Come on! This is crazy.
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Old 10-31-2007, 06:11 PM   #60
bigmurf
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Truck won't run on milk, need diesel. g
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