GAS / DIESEL NOT BRAND

[Bob & Lee]

This is not to be a discussion of which brand is best or which engines are better just gas /diesel? Have been reading the posts and trying to figure what to do and what to buy not the brand to buy but gas or diesel. The Pros and Con’s of gas / diesel. I have a F250 460 Gas has pulled two Montana’s well so far but now with new 3400 was going to get a F350 SRW CC short bed diesel now with all the talk do I want a gas or a diesel? Gas mileage is up and down, power torque and stopping ability is up in the air. How much effect is the engine type? I do want a 1 ton CC SB but which is really best performance wise.

Bob

[ole dude]

I vote that you do what is best for your situation, ie; how will you use your truck mostly, do you do your own wrenching, maintenance, where do you travel mostly. I choose the diesel because of strength, in pulling, economy, lower maintenance, diesels tend to last longer, have a better resale value even at higher mileage.

[richfaa]

Welllll..I just went to a F-350 Ford 6.4 Diesel from a 05 F-350 Ford V-10.Only difference between this 08 and the 05 is the 08 is the diesel and 4X4 with some extra goodies. We pulled the 3400 all over the country including some long steep grades with the V-10 and it did the job.Huffed and puffed on some of the really steep long ones but got us over the top at a reasonable speed. I have stated many times that 85 % of the time a diesel is not necessary. The 15% that it is necessary is at high altitudes, and towing heavy loads in high country. We are now doing more of the 15% towing than we ever did before so we went to the diesel ( and I just wanted a new truck). You need to evaluate how you use the motor and where you will use the motor.
Fuel prices ..don't know why but right now Diesel is .30 more than gas and we are getting 2 mpg better on the diesel..Is that worth 5K more money???? Maint..The Diesel takes way more oil than the V10..If you do maint at the same intervals on both the Diesel will cost more to maintain. The Diesel will last longer.. Why you can run them 200/300K miles...so who has a diesel with 200/300K miles on it. You get more on trade on a Diesel...of course you will....YOU PAID MORE FOR IT.

The V-10 served our needs for 3 years..we have no complaints..We feel the diesel will also serve our new needs in the future.
Bottom line is We wanted a new truck and we never owned a diesel of our very own so we got one..and the heck with all that other crap//

[skypilot]

Bob: Best guidance I can give is to look at what your plans are -- how many miles are you going to use it; how often do you plan to trade, and where are you going to be. Unless you plan to drive 100K or more on it, you will never recoup the cost of the diesel engine. That said, I see you are in Colorado so the increased performance of the turbo diesel at altitude may be worth every penny of that cost (it was to me -- I'm originally from Albuquerque so the 3% per 1000 feet altitude loss in performance of a gas engine was a detriment). The other thing to look at is fuel costs -- historically diesel had been less than gas but the last couple of years this has been up-side down. I don't know what economists expect in the future but that additional fuel cost has to come into play as well.

Bottom line -- Like Rich above, and many others have said in other threads -- you want a new truck -- drive them (various manufacturers and if able, gas vs diesel in the same model) and then get what makes you and the spouse happiest.

Best wishes on whatever you decide -- it will meet your needs.

[Bob & Lee]

Thank's to all for the information.. Skypilot I see you are in Manhattan KS, we lived in White City KS. for 17 Years and moved to CO. 3 years ago and all worked well there and now we have the mountains to deal with all the time. Till I fully retire it will be short trips, most back to KS to see the Kids and then hope to see the USA I missed. So I think I will need the Diesel. I normaly do my own work on the truck and know little about the diesel so I gess it will be hit the books.

Thanks
Bob

[richfaa]

If I were pulling in CO it would have ben a Diesel from day one..

[bsmeaton]

Bob,

We have the same rig you are discussing, and the same trailer. It is a great combination and also the truck is a great all around vehicle for me as a Colorado guy.

I drove gassers for years while towing (454, 460, even 440). I always figured if my gasser torque matched that of the diesel so would the engine performance (back in 90s my 454 had 430 ft/lbs torque and Cummins was 410 ft/lbs torque). After breaking down and towing with the diesel, there is no contest. The diesel wins even with similar specifications.

Gassers are quiet and fuel is sometimes cheaper, but I don't believe the ultimate performance or endurance is there. Diesels are noisy rattly things, smell, and pull like locomotives.

Drive em all if you get a chance - you'll be able to tell which one you will like better.

[c5racer]

I posted this before, but you might have missed it. According to this info, you will get 127% of the cost of the diesel option when you trade a Ford in, one of the few options you can make money on.

[daneboy]

I agree, a diesel engine will give you better pulling power and longer life. However the maintenace is more expensive. Our Ford dealer charges right around $100 for an oil change or an air filter. Last month I had the 30,000 mile trany service & fuel filters replaced, the cost was $405.86 less $64.27 from a coupon plus tax TOTAL with coupon $355.62. That said, the truck pulls like crazy and I abuse it. Two days ago we were pulling across Utah with light traffic at 80+ mph. 3,700 miles on this trip amd we average 11.2 mpg pulling and solo together. Good luck with your what ever you choose.
Jerry

[mallardjusted]

"diesel engine ..... the maintenace is more expensive."

The spark plugs are a lot cheaper!!!!!

[Ozz]

The new Fords are so quiet, more than one person has asked me if it was a gas engine. I love my truck........

[mtheo]

Trailer Life did a study a couple of years back, and found when you factored in maintaince, fuel cost and additional cost of purchase, you would have to tow, not just drive over 100K before your broke even on $$$$$. That was when Diesel was less than regular.

That being said I love the way my 2002 dura max pulls the Monty over the hills hills.
Mark T.

[Glenn and Lorraine]

I am on my second diesel and my next TV will be a diesel.

quote:"Diesels are noisy rattly things, smell, and pull like locomotives."

Maybe in the days of old but that statement does not hold water with any of the new diesels. My Duramax is quieter than some gassers out there.

I have a diesel because of all the "positive" reasons stated above and when you can get a gasser with the power, torque, longevity and fuel mileage, etc of a diesel I may reconsider.
As far as servicing my diesel I submit to what GM says in my Owners Manual. Some feel they must change oil at every 3,000 to 5,000 miles and at those intervals a diesel can be expensive BUT when GM, the warranty carrier of my Duramax, says every 10,000 miles I kinda go with what GM says.
Also knowing when the time comes to trader-in I feel very comfortable knowing I will do very well financially. Even with a couple hundred or more thousands of miles on the odometer not so with a gasser.

quote:so who has a diesel with 200/300K miles on it.

Right now I only have 50,000 on this one but it will have closer to those numbers when I trader-in.

BUT this is MHO and only you can decide what engine best fits your needs.

[richfaa]

Based on the NADA trade in value of the 05 V-10 that I just traded...Gas Vs Diesel..Same truck
gas trade value 24,825 cost of V-10 NC
Diesel Trade value 29,200 cost of Diesel 5300

Difference in trade value 4375 more for the diesel

Who would have thunk that you would get MORE on a trade in for something that you PAID MORE for????

[bsmeaton]

hahaha -

Wasn't too long ago that diesel got you a "deduct" value in NADA, even though you paid more for it. (1970-80 era).

[CmdrDewey]

When I traded my 2002 F 250 SC with 120,000 miles I got $5,000 more than NADA said a gas truck was worth.

Now lets talk about fuel cost. At $3.00 per gallon and 10 miles to the gallon, it costs $0.30 per mile. At $2.70 per gallon and 8 miles per gallon it $0.3375 per mile. You save $11.25 for every 300 mile day. After the heating season is underway it is likely Diesel will more nearly equal gas. If the cost is $2.70 for each you save $20.25 for that same 300 mile drive.

I may have been lucky but so far both of my diesel trucks have been less expensive to operate over time.

I would have to see that Trailer Life Article to believe it. Ford says 30.000 to 50,000 but in my case (given trade-in value) I was saving money almost from day one.

I think you should have a LWB too but that is another story

[Glenn and Lorraine]

Gotta remember the that same Trailer Life Mag gave Montana's a very low rating just a few months ago. None of us MOCers believed that than so tell me why should we now believe that rag.

As far as NADA, about the only thing I use the NADA book for is UH ERRR ??? Well Nothing. Trade-in value is based on what you got and it's general condition, what you are buying, where you are located and just how bad does the dealer want to make a deal and just how bad does he want your diesel. Gasser trade-ins take place everyday and so are a dime a dozen at trade-in. A well kept diesel is like gold and if the dealer wants it bad enough the NADA book goes out the window. The last thing is dickering and negotiating. I am a salesman's worst customer as I don't believe there is any such a thing as the bottom line. Lorraine will leave the building when I get into my dickering/negotiations mode as she is well aware that this may take hours. I usually walk away with the absolute best deal for me. If not there is always another dealer just down the road who wants my business.

[Eagle Man]

If you are in CO, no question, diesel. A gasser loses 3% of it's power for every 1000' of altitude above sea level. So if you are at 10000', one third of your power in a gasser is gone.

[gj4040]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that a diesel is worth much more at trade-in time, especially one with 4WD in excellent condition. Being an A plan buyer the only room for negotiation was the trade-in value of my 2005 F-250 Super Duty, Lariat SB, extended cab. The dealer that offered me $30000.00 for mine in trade made the deal for me. There was no way I was going to get close to that with a gas F-250. That figure, combined with the incentives available at the time made it next to impossible not to make the trade. The dealer (owner) who made me the offer was laughing at the time, telling me that I really could not pass the deal up and he was right.

[richfaa]

I noted a slight loss of power at above around 6K feet with my V-10. It was not significant . we went over a 8K+ pass and I also noted a loss of power but again not significant and we made the climb with no problem . Keep in mind that the V-10 is normally aspirated and the Diesel is turbo charged. Take the turbo off the Diesel and it would do no better.About this noise thing.. Being the proud owner of a shinny new F-350 6.4L Diesel I can tell you it is quiet FOR A DIESEL...But it is still noisy. I am still not accustomed to driving around a 54K truck that sounds like the motor is coming apart. All you diesel drivers have been driving them for so long you do not notice the noise or have suffered severe hearing loss.. It is like living next to a train track, after awhile you do not hear the trains. Now the V-10..that was quiet... I just remove my hearing aids when I drive the Diesel and all is well.