Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > MOC on M.A.R.S. > Additions & Improvements
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-12-2006, 01:38 PM   #1
Ozzie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Apple Valley
Posts: 1,574
M.O.C. #1358
Send a message via MSN to Ozzie
Surge protectors?

Ok...after spending a good long time reading about autoformers, you guys have convinced me I need to take a good look at this (fear and ignorance is powerful).
I know you have beat this horse severely, so I don't intend this to be a thread about autoformers (you're welcome), but I have found little discussion about surge protectors (other than SureGuard).
I will freely admit to being a doe head when it comes to electrical stuff, and I have no idea if the $80 model gives me the protection I need, or if I need to spend $300.
My rig is setup for 30 Amp, and I intend to mount the autoformer inside my rig.
What's left is the type of surge protector, fore or aft of the autoformer (depends on CG voltage? - I read about that here too), and securing the surge protector if at the power mast.


327RKS
Ozzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 02:24 PM   #2
tmarshall
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: El Portal
Posts: 73
M.O.C. #6027
Hey Ozzie,

I am living in the montana here in Douglas, WY. We just had a huge lightening storm last sunday that really sent things crazy in my trailer. The AC side of my water heater went out due to an electrical surge. I just had it repaired by a mobile RV repair man. He changed the on/off switch, thermostat, and electric element. The storm also fried my cable line, electric coffee grinder that was unplugged and tripped the surge protector for the computer. One lightening bolt sent carol and I scrambling and a picture flew off the wall to the other side of the bedroom. Carol said it felt like someone punched her in the back.

So anyways, I am thinking about getting a surge protector, because after that electrical storm I am affraid that I will permanently have "gremlins" in my water heater. I advise you get it. I will get one soon.



Tim Marshall
2004 3670RL Montana
2002 F-350 powerstroke diesel
tmarshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 02:49 PM   #3
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
A bad surge can zap the autoformer so I'd put the surge protector prior to the autoformer.

See another Montana or Mountaineer on the road? Flash lights twice, it might be one of us!
Steve Reigle (pronounced Regal)
Fulltiming since 3/21/03
'03 3295RK
'05 Ford F250 SD Lariat CC SB 6.0L PSD/TS FX4 4x4

Our RV Travels (now Firefox-compatible)

sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 02:52 PM   #4
Ozzie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Apple Valley
Posts: 1,574
M.O.C. #1358
Send a message via MSN to Ozzie
Oh no...you just confirmed my worst fears...
I sure hope you get that mess sorted out.

We had a narrow escape not long ago too...we were awakened by a bolt of lightning that stuck the ground the other side of our neighbors in the middle of the night. My mouth tasted like tin foil...

Now my fear and ignorance is being replaced by a feeling of being foolish. I'd say that surge protector will be included our next trip out.

EDIT...Oops...Steve - you snuck that one in while I was replying. Thanks for that, I can see both arguments for the location after reading here about it. I actually preferr to have it protected inside. I can plug it in for or aft, but may need to make a door for access as my power line cubby is under the fridge. We tend to spend a fair amount of time sightseeing and want things protected.


327RKS
Ozzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 03:04 PM   #5
CountryGuy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tipton
Posts: 3,646
M.O.C. #191
Ozzie,

Have you seen Al's page on his installation?

http://www.geocities.com/genieyorks/autoformer

He has several paragraphs discussing surge protectors, and why he placed where he did. Note, we also use a surge protector right at the campground pole. The one in the application as he describes is a WHOLE house protector.

And, yes, you will get differing opinions, each has validity he tells me. He tells me, my eyes glaze over, he is the electrician, not I!!

Carol
CountryGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 03:22 PM   #6
Ozzie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Apple Valley
Posts: 1,574
M.O.C. #1358
Send a message via MSN to Ozzie
Yes I have Carol...I ran across that article a couple times from different sources. Even a Google search turned it up.
It's a very good article, but a bit beyond my scope to take out the power panel to do it.
I'm not the electrician type. I can do basic stuff, I could do an autoformer without difficulty at the trailer end of the main power line (there's a junction box there).

Can I ask what kind of surge protector you are using at the pole?
All I need is the 30 amp, but I want to buy a quality part that will give me good protection.


327RKS
Ozzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 03:32 PM   #7
CountryGuy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tipton
Posts: 3,646
M.O.C. #191
Al tells me it is a Surgeguard, from CW, paid about $79 to $99 for it.
CountryGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 03:37 PM   #8
Ozzie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Apple Valley
Posts: 1,574
M.O.C. #1358
Send a message via MSN to Ozzie
Ahhh...so that is the one then. I was looking at it, but they didn't give much info about it and I was afraid it was a lower quality item since they offered a much more expensive one.
I don't know much about the specs of these things, but if it's good enough for you guys, it must be good enough for us. Thanks...


327RKS
Ozzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 03:51 PM   #9
CountryGuy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tipton
Posts: 3,646
M.O.C. #191
You are welcome, just remember, it is only part of the protection Al uses on his electrical system. But, for cripes sakes, get something on there! OHHH, we have been known to use seperate surge protectors on the computers, TV, etc., between the computer and the wall plug, in addition to the SurgeGuard, and all that autoformer/house surge protector stuff. Best insurance, stay away from huge electrical storms! YEA RIGHT!

Carol
CountryGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 07:13 PM   #10
Ozzie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Apple Valley
Posts: 1,574
M.O.C. #1358
Send a message via MSN to Ozzie
Hehe...having a computer with an internet connection has long been something I've wanted. I have a notebook complete with all the goodies, but no service for wireless yet. We haven't even been to a campground with wireless so I can't play...

Back on topic...I did put in an order for the surge protector at least. And a voltage monitor just so I can see what's going on.
Camping World is so dangerous...another $160 later...


327RKS
Ozzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 07:26 PM   #11
stiles watson
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Leona
Posts: 6,382
M.O.C. #2059
I am not an electrician. Experiences in my stick house, due to lightening, sent me looking for "whole house" surge protection. These little surges protectors that we plug into will not do the job if there is an onsite or near site strike. I would not purpose to tell anyone what to get because I don't know enough to ask the right questions. But I got alot of questionable advice from people wanting to sell me stuff.

When I had the problem at the stick house, had a conversation with the power company workers. I asked them about different kinds of surge protection and what was effective and what was just window dressing. I don't have with me in Hong Kong the information I had gathered. But I can recommend the power company information services as a possible source of accurate information concerning surge protection products and their effectiveness.

This I do know: surge protection needs to be between the souce of power and your rig. It will then protect from upline surges that you may not even know about. Then it shoukd be supplimented by the smaller, individual equipment surge protectors. If you get a direct hit or a very near hit, there may be very little that can be done to totally protect your electronics.

Stiles n Dianna
"Life is an adventure unfolding"
03 3670RL Big Sky
02 Ford F250 Lariat Longbox 7.3L PSD
Hypertech Programmer III
Prodigy



stiles watson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 07:41 PM   #12
Ozzie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Apple Valley
Posts: 1,574
M.O.C. #1358
Send a message via MSN to Ozzie
I appreciate the comments Stiles...point well taken.
I do intend on looking much further into this and don't for a minute believe the plug in device is adequate protection.
This would appear to be a quest on my part to find a complete solution, and I am ignorant in such matters. Only now (much in part due to this forum) am I becoming aware that this needs serious attention.
I may very well be looking at an additional whole house type protection as well as voltage regulation. I'm hoping this plug in voltage meter will shed some light on the instabilties in the available power sources.


327RKS
Ozzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2006, 01:56 PM   #13
Ozzie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Apple Valley
Posts: 1,574
M.O.C. #1358
Send a message via MSN to Ozzie
Oh boy...

We just got back from a weekend outing...and that brand new in line surge protector kicked out because of low voltage, so I guess this merits a closer look. That voltmeter was all over the place, and much of the time it was on the low end.
We had a retired master electrician next to us (campers are a friendly bunch, aren't they?), and when I told him I was monitoring the voltage and it was very unstable, he came running with his Fluke voltmeter.
The campground had been poorly wired, 30 amp, but not stable at all.
I had a very lengthy and interesting talk about campgrounds and electronics with him, resulting in additional surge protectors to the tv and dvd player...and I think more measures will be forthcoming.


327RKS
Ozzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2006, 03:59 PM   #14
Ozz
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
Ozzie, I wondered where you were.
I am about to post my install of my serge protector and panel volt meter.
Glad you didn't ruin any equipment.
Ozz

'07 3400RL 2nd RTU
2 Golf Cart batteries 3,000 watt inverter, automatic transfer switch
Honda 2000 Generator, Maytag's with 220 Dryer
Stationary domed Sat. dish, LCD 12 Volt Amp gauge, LCD Tank Monitor
3 added 120 volt outlets, On Board Air; 12 Volt Viair 450C compressor
2006 Ford PSD 4x4 Off Road Lariat, Hadley Air Horns, Truck inverter with 110 volts: laptop, Color Backup Camera, Awning lock
Ozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2006, 04:26 PM   #15
Ozzie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Apple Valley
Posts: 1,574
M.O.C. #1358
Send a message via MSN to Ozzie
I sure am glad that electrician was there. Electricity is not my bag, but I learned enough from reading here that I could carry on a conversation with him...
Both of our rigs were at the end of a long line. He was in a 5'er with a 50 amp cord on a 30 amp adapter, I was on my 30 amp cord (what my trailer is rated for).
His voltage was more stable than mine with his heavier cord...
I think my next step may be pulling the power panel and tightening up the screws.
All this was a bit overwhelming to take in at once...


327RKS
Ozzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2006, 06:04 PM   #16
Ozz
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
Ozzie,
probably a good idea, I think 'The end of a long line' is the key, (Voltage drop) you may never have this exact situation again, and be fine, but I agree on at least checking the tightness.
Ozz

'07 3400RL 2nd RTU
2 Golf Cart batteries 3,000 watt inverter, automatic transfer switch
Honda 2000 Generator, Maytag's with 220 Dryer
Stationary domed Sat. dish, LCD 12 Volt Amp gauge, LCD Tank Monitor
3 added 120 volt outlets, On Board Air; 12 Volt Viair 450C compressor
2006 Ford PSD 4x4 Off Road Lariat, Hadley Air Horns, Truck inverter with 110 volts: laptop, Color Backup Camera, Awning lock
Ozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Surge Protectors onekla General Discussions about our Montanas 14 05-13-2012 12:47 PM
SURGE PROTECTORS Larry-P Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 16 07-15-2011 05:11 AM
Surge Protectors janrlee Additions & Improvements 2 06-13-2008 04:21 AM
Surge Protectors bullroc3 Additions & Improvements 6 06-06-2008 02:55 PM
surge protectors harleyrider Additions & Improvements 0 04-18-2004 02:24 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.