Battery charger help needed (SOLVED!)

[bncinwv]

The problem arose this morning, when the fridge indicated low dc voltage. I checked both batteries and sure enough they only read about 11 volts. Not having time to troubleshoot, I took the easy way out and went and bought a battery charger and hooked it up to the battery feeding the coach. Although the charger indicated it was charging, no change in the rig was seen and battery voltage was not going up. Next step was to turn off the breaker for the converter and the battery slowly started accepting a charge. It is now reading 11.7 volts after charging for an hour or so. We have a work-a-round so the crisis is averted. Is there anything rlseI can do to check the converter?
Bingo

The solution is always simple! Cathy woke up this morning and started reading the book that we got at the Mid-Atlantic rally: RV the Handbook. She looked right at me and would not stop mentioning fuses. Lo and Behold, she knew what she was talking about. On the Progressive Dynamics PD4500 control center, there are four 25 amp reverse polarity fuses. Looking back to the previous battery problem (Charlie was correct!) the fuses did their job. All four 25 amp fuses were blown, so off to Walmart to get fuses. I did remember during the PDI, the service tech had mentioned that all must be replaced with the battery disconnected. Mission accomplished and we are now back to normal! Note to self: always check the simple, obvious things first. Another related item that should have been an indicator, is the outside Jensen entertainment center was not working. After consulting the owner's manual, a fuse for it (10 amp) was replaced on the rear of the unit. There are four screws at each corner that require a square bit for removal. Got that done as well. Now, back to vacation until I manage to do something else of an idiotic nature!

[richfaa]

Are you hooked up to shore power if so does the fridge work then. We had the same indication when we lost one leg of our input power. Look at the little green lite in the converter. What is it doing. Find the manual for the converter and go to page 3 or 4 and read what the blinking lite means. Right now it should be blinking indicating it is charging. Once per every 6 to 8 seconds means normal. If it is not doing anything......big trouble..

[Irlpguy]

If you are only reading 11.7 volts after a charger has been on for over an hour then there is something wrong with the battery. Anything below 12V indicates a severely discharged battery. I would go and buy a hydrometer and check each cell, I would guess at least one cell is no good.
Was this the new battery you just put in the system or one that was in when you had the other mishap.

The green light on your converter is the charge indicator and the rate at which it blinks tells you the charge rate, the fastest rate of blink indicates just over 14 volts, next fastest is 13.8 and the slow blink is 13.2 volts.

I would not have a battery charger and the converter operating at the same time.

My best guess is a battery that needs replacing.

[8.1al]

Could this be related to this earlier problem?
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...hTerms=battery

[bncinwv]

Brand new battery, now reading 12.3 volts so it is charging. I turned the converter off so there are no lights being displayed. Before I turned the converter off it was blinking in normal mode. I manually put it in boost mode, but no difference was evidenced in the battery charging. I will next charge the secondary battery which for now is not hooked up. I am wondering if the MBSS switch was damaged causing the batteries to discharge? That still does not explain the converter not charging the battery. Of course, my multimeter is at home. I am wondering if there is a wire that is not hooked up properly, but I dont see any. Does the converter charge the battery through the hot wire?
Bingo

[Irlpguy]

All connections between the 12V on the converter and the battery go through the battery disconnect switch which is the + side of your battery. That is how the battery is charged, through that heavy wire.

I think the "smart" part of the converter only allows the converter to put out 14.? volts for a short period of time, this is a maintenance thing done every so often, normal on a charged battery would be outputting at 13.2 volts and 13.8 volts when charging.

I would disconnect it from the system, when the battery in question shows 13.8 volts, take it off the charger and let it sit an hour and recheck the voltage, it should remain close to the 13.8V, if not, then there is definitely something wrong with the battery. The only easy accurate way to check the battery is by using a hydrometer to check each cells specific gravity.

There is a proper procedure to check the 12V part of the converter in it's manual, if all else fails you might want to check that out.

[Overlord]

quote:Originally posted by 8.1al

Could this be related to this earlier problem?
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...hTerms=battery

That would be a good guess as to where to start looking.

Maybe pull the entire converter unit and take it somewhere to get it bench tested for a problem. It could possibly be a failure related to your having fried the battery when you hooked one up with the polarity the wrong way, ...a blown diode or some such thing.

[HOOK]

Recently, on our old unit, it stopped charging. Steve replaced a fuse inside the converter.

[Irlpguy]

Bingo it appears you have power at the storage facility, if you are hooked up to shore power you should be able to turn off the battery disconnect and you should still have more than enough power to operate everything that requires 12V in the trailer. If you cannot run lights or anything on the Converter alone, then the converter is not operating and it is generating no DC voltage. You may have fried it with the other problem.

Plug into shore power, disconnect the batteries, if you have no DC power then troubleshoot the converter.

[bncinwv]

Thanks Ed, will try that in the morning. We are at a KOA just north of Charleston, SC. Had no problems until this morning.
Bingo

[Carl n Susan]

This smells like a converter problem. Without an ohm meter it is going to be hard to tell exactly what is going on. But you have a voltage meter built in to the Level-up system. A fully charged battery should be at 12.8V. The charger should be delivering at least 13.2V (more if the battery is not fully charged).

The Montana comes with a PROGRESSIVE DYNAMICS 90 AMP RV POWER CONVERTER CHARGER W/ AC/DC PANEL PD4590 which has both Reverse Polarity and High Voltage protection. Depending on what you did wrong with the batteries earlier, it is likely the fuses in the converter are blown. Not a big deal as they are standard blade fuses and replaceable.

Page through the displays in the Level up panel until you find the one which displays voltage. With the shore power disconnected (it needs to be off for a few minutes for the surface charge to stabilize) you should see the battery voltage. Turn on the power (and the converter) and the voltage should jump to 13.2V or more. If it doesn't the converter is not delivering a charge to the battery. Now you need to find the protection fuses and determine their health. Here is where an ohm meter is needed to determine where the lack of voltage originates. Even a Harbor Freight $3.99 one will suffice.

The "Installation and Operation Guide for PD4500 Series Power Control Centers" manual may help.
http://www.progressivedyn.com/pdfs/110030%20English.pdf

[bncinwv]

Thanks Carl, more to try in the morning. As always, the trials, tribulation and hopefully fix will be relayed to all via the forum. I am monitoring the battery voltage via the generator auto-start remote. Seems the biggest voltage drop is when the furnace kicks in. Freeze warning tonight, but we have space heaters supplementing the furnace. But we are still having a great time, eating good, warm campfire tonight, and spending the holiday with my favorite three women!! Life is good, even with a couple of minor setbacks. Will get another multi-meter, will be the third Harbor Freight one, and this one will definitely stay in fhe rig!
Bingo

[bncinwv]

First test this morning was as Ed suggested. Hooked up to shore power (EMS showed both lines okay with amperage on both), disconnected the positive side of battery and there is no DC power at all in the rig. No lights. My take is this shows that there is no output from the converter. I checked the breaker for the converter by turning it on and off, converter indicator light (green) was flashing but no lights. I am using the optima now and it is charging. Had the wet cell batteries hooked up to the charger last night and the charger kicked down to maintenance mode and the battery drained down below 10 volts which meant furnace would not come on and fridge started beeping showing low dc voltage. Will be testing that battery later with a hydrometer, but for now the optima is charging.
Bingo

[Bill-N-Donna]

quote:Originally posted by bncinwv



The solution is always simple! Cathy woke up this morning and started reading the book that we got at the Mid-Atlantic rally: RV the Handbook. She looked right at me and would not stop mentioning fuses. Lo and Behold, she knew what she was talking about.

[Irlpguy]

Bingo I would check at page 3 and 4 of the manual that Carl referred you to : http://www.progressivedyn.com/pdfs/110030%20English.pdf

You have to remove the converter cover of course to make these tests, after you have the VOM purchased from HF, that is.

I would pull the 4 reverse polarity fuses and physically check them as well, use procedures in the manual.

Good luck, hope it is not the converter, unless there is something amiss with all the wiring changes made, things are pointing in that direction.

[bncinwv]

Got it fixed Ed, edited the first post describing the four blown reverse polarity fuses. Simple things vex my simple mind, I guess.
Bingo

[Irlpguy]

Oooops I did not look at the original post, Glad you found the problem, I do believe those reverse polarity fuses were mentioned in the other post which caused you all these problems.

My advise.... Don't mess with the wiring...LOL

[Captain Joe]

Bingo, Bingo, Bingo. Print out all this stuff for the last month and put it into your Jeff Dunham's "Walter" folder so everything is documented for you to possibility use in the future. I have several "Walter" folders.
Happy Thanksgiving

[bncinwv]

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

Oooops
My advise.... Don't mess with the wiring...LOL

Good advice, but that would take ALL of the fun out of it. Besides, it adds the the drama of the MOC. DW told me that I am going to have to move on from my holding age of 29, she said absent-minded moves only happen to older gentlemen who should not get in a hurry and forget to double-check their work. I will confess, that hopefully this ends the "Bingo" drama for a while. Gotta go, think i will dream up a new mod to do correctly this time! Hee Hee!
Bingo

[K0LCB]

Bingo, glad you got her fixed. Where are the reverse polarity fuses?