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Old 06-21-2018, 10:29 AM   #1
BB_TX
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Does 50 amp hookup actually have 240 vac in the RV?

Mixed in the discussion of campgrounds prohibiting using a 50/30 adapter to connect a 50 amp RV to a park 30 amp outlet, there was a side discussion on whether there was actually 240 vac available in a 50 amp RV. I guess like everything else there is no consistency.

Someone mentioned that their distribution panel did not allow installing a double pole breaker for 240 vac. Mine however does. It is an IOTA IDP-240 120/240 VAC ELECTRICAL DISTRIBUTION PANEL. I suppose the 120/240 means it is configured for either voltage using the appropriate breaker. The breaker spaces alternate between hot 1 and hot 2 just like a home electrical distribution panel. So if I wanted to install a 240 vac clothes dryer (or any other 240 vac device) all I would have to do would be install a 2 pole linked circuit breaker and run the appropriate wire to my dryer closet. Not that I have any reason to do that, but it is possible.
 
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:52 PM   #2
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This diagram helped me understand the difference between 50A and 30A service, and I think confirms what you suggested.
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:54 PM   #3
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:58 PM   #4
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I don't know if you remember BB_TX, but Ozz did that exact same thing a number of years ago. He wanted to run a 240V dryer rather than the puny 120V types.
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:53 PM   #5
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Yes, but Ozz also cut a hole in his bathroom wall and put a window in. He had a few skills many of us don't
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:57 PM   #6
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Putting a window in the bathroom is easy once you overcome the fear of cutting through the wall. We installed windows in three Montanas at one rally. But Ozz did like to go for the weird mods.
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Old 06-21-2018, 06:49 PM   #7
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Yes, that is how mine is configured. Alternating spaces for H1 and H2.

Some apparently have the main breaker in the middle with sub breakers on each side of center. H1 on one side and H2 on the other. On those you could not use a two pole breaker to get 240 vac even though there is 240 in the panel.
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Old 06-21-2018, 07:06 PM   #8
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Yes, but Ozz also cut a hole in his bathroom wall and put a window in. He had a few skills many of us don't
Most people can do just about anything they have guts enough to try.
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Old 06-22-2018, 04:57 AM   #9
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Hi

There is a misconception among the RV group.

The 50 units use a standard 240V hookup. When you power 2 loads in the RV on opposite legs you are actually using the 240 circuit of the power system.

If you were to build a box with 3 amp meters mounted and run line 1 to one and line 2 to the second one and the neutral to the third one.

When you turned the first 20 amp load on line 1 the amp meter for line 1 and the amp meter for the natural will read 20 amps.

Then when you turn the second 20 amp load on line 2 you will read 20 amps on line 1 and 20 amps on line 2 and 0 amps on the natural.

The neutral only carries load when the loads are unbalanced.

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Old 06-22-2018, 01:11 PM   #10
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Yes, that is how mine is configured. Alternating spaces for H1 and H2.

Some apparently have the main breaker in the middle with sub breakers on each side of center. H1 on one side and H2 on the other. On those you could not use a two pole breaker to get 240 vac even though there is 240 in the panel.
That is a perfect description. Mine has the mains in the middle.
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Old 06-22-2018, 04:01 PM   #11
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Hi

There is a misconception among the RV group.

The 50 units use a standard 240V hookup. When you power 2 loads in the RV on opposite legs you are actually using the 240 circuit of the power system.

If you were to build a box with 3 amp meters mounted and run line 1 to one and line 2 to the second one and the neutral to the third one.

When you turned the first 20 amp load on line 1 the amp meter for line 1 and the amp meter for the natural will read 20 amps.

Then when you turn the second 20 amp load on line 2 you will read 20 amps on line 1 and 20 amps on line 2 and 0 amps on the natural.

The neutral only carries load when the loads are unbalanced.

Phil P



That is true, but to most, it is way over their heads. It is better to just say, you are getting two separate 120 volt legs, each with 50 amps of capacity on a 50 amp wired trailer. If you happen to be in a park that is wired 208Y/120 volts, and they are out there, then that adds to the confusion, because there isn't 240 volts. When you have separate loads on the opposing hotlegs in one of these panels, you really do not have a 240 volt connected load. A true 240 volt load does not utilize the neutral like the 120 volt circuits do.
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Old 06-22-2018, 04:14 PM   #12
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Not to hijack the thread, but where has Ozz been, anybody heard from him?
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Old 06-22-2018, 06:50 PM   #13
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Ozz still pops in occasionally. Just not as often. Had a few posts back in May I think.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:57 AM   #14
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A true 240 volt load does not utilize the neutral like the 120 volt circuits do.

That’s my point when you balance the load there is no need for the neutral.

However these units most probably will never balance the load I find most have both AC units on the same leg.

We could get into Inductance, reactance and power factor etc but would be of no use here.

The real problem encountered in the 50 amp RV is the loss of the neutral. This commonly results in damage some time severe to the equipment in the trailer.

I use the Progressive portable line conditioner and it does well but I suffered some damage to the RV when I lost the neutral in the anaconda cord.

So I recommend doing or have someone do a complete inspection and tighten all of the connection in both ends of the anaconda cord and the receptacle on the back of the trailer as well as the connections at the panel inside the trailer in the first 6 months of use and then periodically about once a year there after.

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Old 06-25-2018, 07:43 AM   #15
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Both A/Cs on leg? I was wondering about that as I think my unit has one single breaker marked for A/C.

So typical A/C units are 110v with 12 volt control?

I might mess with minor issues on the A/C units but I leave the important stuff to the pros. Man has to know his limits. I don’t rebuild transmissions either......LOL
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:59 AM   #16
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Yes ac's run off 120vac and 12vdc powers electronics in them to supply the 12vdc to the ostat and do all the high voltage switching as directed by the thermostat (120vac being switched).
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Old 06-25-2018, 08:59 AM   #17
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Both A/Cs on leg? I was wondering about that as I think my unit has one single breaker marked for A/C.
..............
Depending on the unit, the second A/C is sometimes an option. I would guess they simply failed to label the 2nd A/C breaker. Two A/Cs running at the same time would trip the standard 20 amp breaker. But even with separate breakers they could still be on the same leg.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:45 AM   #18
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Depending on the unit, the second A/C is sometimes an option. I would guess they simply failed to label the 2nd A/C breaker. Two A/Cs running at the same time would trip the standard 20 amp breaker. But even with separate breakers they could still be on the same leg.
So if they had the A/Cs on separate legs would you be able to run both at a 30amp site??
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:34 AM   #19
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I used to have an old National Sea Breeze 30 amp with 2 ac units. All other items that run on ac need to be shut off. Then, if the pedestal is in good shape, you could do it. You must remember, a 30 amp circuit is 110 volts ac. A 50 amp circuit has 2 110 volt legs at 50 amp each, like you have at home. Electrical panel determines what runs off of each leg. Dogbone converter connects both 110 legs of 50 amp plug to single thirty amp source....and then (as previously mentioned) there are 208 volt circuits.

One trick I did with the Sea Breeze was to isolate the rear ac circuit. Installed a standard 110 plug and wire connected to the ac to the outside of the rig. I would plug both into the two plugs on the pedestal. Worked great in July in Tuscon.
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Old 06-25-2018, 11:04 AM   #20
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So just to be sure I understand this correctly, are you saying that 30amp service is just that but 50 amp is actually two separate 50s for total of 100?
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