moving sewer outlet - Montana Owners Club

uhftx · 01-17-2005, 02:49 AM

Hi,

Has anyone modified the sewer outlet connection. I dislike having to attach two flexable sewer hoses and trying to support them without falling off the accordion support devices.

I would like to have the discharge port located behind the Axles thereby using only one flexable hose.

Has anyone attempted this and could they explain their experiences and pros / cons to the project. I already know its literally a crappy job.

My concerns are maintaining the pitch in the pipe, Interference with the solid axle and difficulty finding the black pipe to make it look like it belongs there.

All of the campgrounds we have visited have the sewer connection near the electrical utility which is normally at the rear of the site.

I do not understand why it was located in front of the axles in the first place. Keystone must of been trying to save $ on pipe. Its aparent they don't use the units they produce.

Thanks for your input in advance.

Glenn and Lorraine · 01-17-2005, 04:40 AM

Actually the current location does make sense. We have been in more campgrounds with the sewer pipe toward the center of the site and even had a few where the pipe was towards the front of the site and than there are the ones where it is in the back. So a central location on the rig makes a lot of sense.
I gave up on those accordian supports and instead I got a Hose Support & Protector from Camping World. This support telescopes from 5 to approx. 10 feet. For longer stretches I also bought a 10' piece of 4" PVC which I cut in half giving me 2- 5' long pieces. I can use just one for an additional 5 to 6 foot run or put them together for additional 10 foot. At our current location I am using the telescoping support and the 10 feet of PVC for a 20 foot run.
I will take a few pics to better show what I am trying to describe.

Glenn and Lorraine · 01-17-2005, 05:10 AM

Here's the pics.....

Note the jack supports. Another garage sale item, just $5 bucks for the pair

With the jacks and a couple well placed blocks it is a perfect pitch to the parks sewer line.

Also note in the first pic the clear sewer hose fittings which aid in the black tank flushing.

Another note in the 2nd pic the frame jack behind the spring shackle for additional rig stabilization.

And in the 3rd pic the blockage under the rear stabilizer.

CountryGuy · 01-17-2005, 05:25 AM

Nice job Glenn, photos nice, hookup nice!

In our experience the sewer hookups and the electrical hookups can be ANYWHERE! We carry, as Glenn does, a variety of "accessories", to accomplish the duty. Same with electric, gotta have some extension cords.

Not sure it means anything, but last year when in Texas in a newer park (like 2 years old) they had the electric in the back of the site, and sewer in the middle. Maybe cause a lot of the rigs have similiar set up, electric in the back of the rig, sewer stuff in the middle of the rig??

As the industry changes, and the RV public changes, do the old parks change?? Not likely. We see very few RV parks change their set up, unless they are upgrading (usually they just build MORE sites and add the 50 AMP and stuff there), or have to do some serious repairs (maybe their septic system was out of date and the county makes them redo).

Just some random thoughts, and you know how much trouble that can cause ole Carol!

VanMan · 01-17-2005, 05:56 AM

Maybe they do that to sell you an extra sewer hose or electric extension cord ?? I had to buy an extra hose in S. Dakota once and then as soon as I got home bought an extension cord (just in case next time) !!

Glenn, I wish I'd seen or thought about the jack stands! We put up some holiday guests in our TT and then it got down to 21 degrees (here in Tex)!! I hadn't even thought about the sewer hose until it was pretty cold, so I was out in some pretty nasty weather trying to balance that hose on my extension holder like yours on a 2 X 6 to have the right slope and to get rid of the "slinky" bend at the sewer entrance hole.

BillyRay · 01-17-2005, 07:05 AM

models must very, we only have one and it's behind the axils.

sreigle · 01-17-2005, 08:29 AM

All four of our fifthwheels have had the sewer outlet ahead of the wheels. We've seen dump connections on sites all over the place including on the "wrong" side. Most often, though, they're in the middle. Next most is at the back, requiring the multiple hoses uhftx mentioned. I never thought about it but it would be great to have an alternate outlet. I don't know of any RV with two outlets, though. At least not that I've noticed.

Uhftx, if you add another outlet, please let us know how you did it. Sorry I'm of no help to you. Interesting thought, though.

Glenn and Lorraine · 01-17-2005, 08:44 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by CountryGuy

Nice job Glenn, photos nice, hookup nice!

In our experience the sewer hookups and the electrical hookups can be ANYWHERE! We carry, as Glenn does, a variety of "accessories", to accomplish the duty. Same with electric, gotta have some extension cords.

You know if I could get rid of just half the hook up extras I could probably lose 50 pounds.
I carry...
1-20' and 2-10' sections of sewer line
and all the hose connectors, elbows, ring, and adapters required for most any campground sewer hook ups from 3 inch to 5 inch pipe.
2 jack stands for the sewer hose
2 5' sections of 4" PVC
1 telescoping hose support
1 accordian type hose support, which I rarely use anymore

1-25' 30 amp extension cord
1-20' 20 amp extension cord
50 Amp Male to 30 Amp Female Adapter
15 Amp Male to 30 Amp Female adapter

2-25 and 1-10' freshwater hose
various water hose connectors, shut offs, wyes, elbows, pressure reducers, filters

At one time or another I have used all of the above but thankfully not all at the same time.

The sewer hook up I pictured earlier was a simple one. The previous campground required all of that and another 10' of sewer hose and 2- 90 degree elbows.

If there is one thing I learned about RVing it's be prepared. I hate starting my hook up and find I am short some stupid adapter or length of hose. Sure you can buy a lot of these items as needed at the cg store but than you are paying a whole lot more than WallyWorld or Camping World. A good example was my 50 Amp Male to 30 Amp Female Adapter, $16 at Camping World, $25 at the cg store.

uhftx · 01-17-2005, 10:15 AM

I just spoke with a friend of mine. His camper is located on a seasonal site on Cape Cod, MA. He had to move his to the right front by the hitch for the honey wagon (his term not mine)to attach.

He found the sewer black pipe at some place in Derry NH. He isn't sure of the business and has to find the paper work.

Glenn and Lorraine Your second photo above is exactly what I have to do only with flex line and Two expandable supports. I've tried to put firewood on top of the support to keep it from jumping off the support when I open the valve. It sort of works but is a pain in the rear. I could carry a bunch of rain gutter and various rigid PVC oversized pipe with me. But I only mostly weekend camp in our 3255RL and vacations. Basement storage is at a premium and if the flex line leaks contaminating the rigid I still have to store it in the basement.

My last TT was a rockwood ultralight and the connection was behind the axles. No matter where the location it is a pain but this location only required ONE flex line. I'm just trying to relocate it.

1.So I don't have to spend 1/2 hour trying to get the two flex lines joined and have to rig something up what amounts to a few minutes to drain.
2.Trying to avoid having to put the two on my lap messing with coupling of the two lines when there is still liquid in the ribs.
(sorry to be so graphic) I do flush with gray water after and use the built-in flush connection before I flush with gray.
Yes I do use disposable gloves and wash with antibacterial soap before I touch anything. Just those damn bugs May flies and mosquitos.

I know I'll probably get responses like don't hook up and just use the dump station. I've thought of that. For a weekend that works. but there's always a line of RV's waiting to exit. It won't work for a week of camping. She is not frugal with water thats why we have a hotel room on wheels. We've progressed from tent camping and she wouldn't have it any other way.

I'm just trying to minimize setup time and a black water accident when the hose jumps off the support and the splice disconnects from the surge.

I'll take some elevation measurements refrencing the frame and see if I can move the outlet, maintain pitch and avoid damaging the piping.

Thanks for all of the replies.

Chris, Donna and Max(the Lhasa)

CountryGuy · 01-17-2005, 11:33 AM

Chris,

Have you considered taking a long piece of velcro and wrapping it around the hose and whatever you might have holding it up?? That might help keep it from dancing around???

In our years of camping and rving, we have had almost as many variations of sewer set up as we have had campgrounds?? We have used boards, slunky type set ups, the telescoping set up, rocks, whatever worked to try and make the system work! Seems every new place we set up requires a little "tweak" of the setup. Another example of needing to be creative when living in one of these houses on wheels.

OH, we have 2 PVC pipes under the rig that we added to hold the extra hoses, that way we keep them out of the basement.

One of the true joys of Rving, ewwwwwwwwww.

Hey, let us know how you solve the problem, we are always interested in someone else's fix! We can all learn from it!

Carol

uhftx · 01-17-2005, 12:03 PM

Thanks for the Advice Al and Carol,

I think if I add another outlet it would have to be perpendicular to the existing outlet. I'm not sure the axles will allow this. I won't have the drainage, not the slope for solids to flow. Standard is 1/4 inch per foot of pipe. With the new outlet added level to the existing outlet one would always contain stinky stuff.

So I can not add an additional outlet.

I need to relocate the outlet with the proper pitch for reasons stated above.

Its currently in the teens here in New England. With a projected "Lowest wind chill readings as low as 25 below after midnight" according to weather service.

So measurements and a solution will have to wait. At least I'm thinking of something warm!

I'm looking forward to getting out in my rig. Dreading the sewer connection though.

Thanks for your thoughts and replies

CountryGuy · 01-17-2005, 01:07 PM

Chris,

I am afraid to look at the wind chill numbers, but at this very moment my weather bug in the task bar tells me it is 3.1 degrees F. It is NOT nice out there! That said, did you see the numbers for Minnesota today?? Someplace was almost 50 below and that was before figuring wind chill??

Anyway, let us know your fix! Others will want to know!

Carol

sreigle · 01-17-2005, 02:12 PM

Chris, I know exactly what you mean about those splices. Thinking about this I wonder if there's another approach that would work for you. Like Al and Carol, I added a second tube for storing a second hose under the Montana. But it's not long enough to hold two hoses. But what if you mounted a longer tube maybe fore-aft, long enough to accept a double hose with splice in place? Then once you had the two hoses put together you'd just store them without taking the splice apart. Just a thought.

I think I just talked myself into some more work.

paulrem · 01-18-2005, 07:17 AM

Great pictures!
When I asked why the 5er dump was located in from of the axels I was told that it was more of a "straight" shot for when you dump, black water does not need to travel as far. I also asked about the CG sewer hole and why they were located at what would be the backside of a 5er and was told that when GC were first built all of the TT had there sewer lines located in the rear of the trailer, but now as the 5ers and motorhomes are being bought they are desiging the CG with them more toward the middle of the spaces. Most 5er have ther bathrooms in the "middle" of the rigs. This all made sense to me, till I ran into one that swas caddywhompus to this thinking. Hope this helps.

sreigle · 01-18-2005, 10:33 AM

Another thing I wonder about is when a CG puts a sewer pipe several inches above the ground. Even with a sewer support that last foot or so is uphill, meaning the hose is still full of efluent after dumping. Normally this is not a big deal but when it's supposed to be a hard freeze for overnight I have to go out and maneuver the sewer hose to get it fully emptied. If it's not going to get above freezing for a few days and I forget to do this then we may not be able to dump for awhile. I recently learned just trying to change to a non-frozen sewer hose is an expensive proposition. When those hoses are full of ice they crack into small pieces when you move them. I recently had to toss about 30 pieces from two fifteen footers spliced together. It was not much fun.

I think this might be my justification for going to one of those sliding solid supports like Glenn recently posted a picture of. At least that one I could support at the sewer end to make the entire run downhill.

uhftx · 02-10-2005, 12:33 PM

I have a temporary stop gap measure concerning the splice joint. I went to Campers Inn today and pruchased a male and female twist lock connector for the two sections I have to connect. They are not going to solve my flex line jumping off the accordion supports.

I've thought of mounting a pvc pipe to contain the hoses and slicing it down the middle with double hinges to support the hose from the unit.

Similar to the rain gutter method shown above (previous page) using the PVC holder inverted to support the pipe.

How do I explain this better. Take the 6" oversized PVC used for storage with screw end caps. Cut it down the middle. Drill and attach hinges prior to cutting. Secure the two halves to clamps (hose clamps?) that attached and are easily removed from the 5W to release this container. Remove this container and place it on accordion supports hopefully the slope allows)which are now hinged and flipped over to support the pipe (like the rain gutter). This will require an elongated hinge. Or a right angle spacer to attach he hinge for this flip to happen. Or a hinge, a spacer,(of the pipe diameter) and another hinge to allow the PVC to flip over on itself.

I don't know how to explain it any other way. If someone else can help here it would be appreciated.

It just seems so much easier to move the intended outlet if there is clearance over the axles to rear of the unit.

Thanks for looking at this thread.

Montana_2825 · 02-10-2005, 12:52 PM

Your discussion has been truly enlightning. We've not been at RV'ing very long and our "work" dictates that we stay in unusual places: backyards, pastures, driveways, school parking lots, and some campgrounds. To that end, all the RV's in our work group carry portable macerator pumps so that we pump the sewage using brown or black hoses up to 100 feet long. You learn fast to NEVER drink from any hose that isn't white! In fact, I've never used a regular flexible sewage hose yet even though I carry two just in case. It's a regular Saturday chore to pump out the tanks.

wingnut

NJ Hillbilly · 02-11-2005, 02:59 PM

The black pipe is ABS plastic and is available at any plumbing supply. Lowe's may also have it. The only unique thing to the system is the end with the 4 nubs that the quick couplings attach to. This will need to be bought from a rv dealer or CW.
I can't see how You can run the pipe behind the axles since the bottom of the tanks are even with the underbelly so going high to clear them (like inside the belly) is not possible.

John

Montana_1424 · 02-13-2005, 01:03 PM

Since we are talking about dumping and such, I have a question. Normally, when i setr up, I leave my gray and galley tanks open, and the black shut. I empty it as needed. Now I have heard this is the best way to do it, and others have said they leave the black tank open. Which is better?
I am not worried about using the gray and galley tanks to flsuh the black, I have a black tank flush that works great, whihc is why I leave those two tanks open. If it would work , though, I would love to leave the black open too.

Montana_657 · 02-13-2005, 01:26 PM

Black tank has more solids. Valve open liquid drains off solids form lumps. Valve closed tank fills with fluid over the solids... if you lay off the chemicals happy bacteria begin to liquify the solids, paper etc. LET THE TANK FILL UP. Pull the valve, this slurry flows out, give it a rinse and repeat in a week or two.

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