Electrical Problem - Montana Owners Club

Fish · 08-28-2018, 05:27 PM

I lost power to alot of outlets yesterday, and also my ceiling fan. My gfci works, my kitchen off the gfci works. Outside of that all that works is the living room tv and the power recliners and one bedroom recp.

When I turn off the receptacle breaker I lose my tv and chairs. Turn it back on and have them back but the others except the gfci's don't work.

Makes no sense. All breakers are in the correct position, none are tripped. I've hunted all over for another gfci but find none.

2019 montana high country 384br.

CarWin · 08-28-2018, 05:51 PM

2 other possible locations for GFCI`s .....bathroom and basement pass thru storage area.

Hopefully someone else will chime in with a similar unit to give you precise locations.

Fish · 08-28-2018, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarWin

2 other possible locations for GFCI`s .....bathroom and basement pass thru storage area.

Hopefully someone else will chime in with a similar unit to give you precise locations.

The gfci in the bathroom feeds the kitchen.

I've looked all over the basement and the wet bay and found none in there.

**Carl n Susan** · 08-28-2018, 06:38 PM

Are the functional circuits all on the same leg of one 50 amp breaker? It sounds like one leg of the shore power has gone south. The ceiling fan is definitely not on a GFCI/

BB_TX · 08-28-2018, 07:06 PM

Agree with Carl. I would question the 50 amp source if on 50 amp service. IF YOU ARE COMFORTABLE troubleshooting live 120 vac, remove the cover to your 120 vac distribution panel and, using a voltmeter, see if you have 120 vac on both poles of your main 50 amp breaker with reference to neutral.

If you are not comfortable with that then you might find someone who is.

BuilderBob · 08-28-2018, 09:40 PM

Start at the pedestal make sure you have 120 on both legs and go from there up to the fuse panel. Do you have a volt meter?

MARK A · 08-28-2018, 11:01 PM

^^ I have seen 1/2 of a double breaker trip. That'd do it.

Mark

rohrmann · 08-29-2018, 12:44 AM

I’m wondering if you lost a neutral coming from the pedestal, and in operating the breakers you are getting power on one leg and losing it on the other. I would definitely be checking all grounds and especially the neutral all the way from the pedestal to the rig’s panel. Losing a neutral will cause all kinds of weird things to happen.

BB_TX · 08-29-2018, 08:48 AM

I agree with above. I jumped a couple stages ahead as a starting point. Start by verifying you have 120 vac on both legs at the pedestal. If so, then disconnect your power cord from the trailer, plug in at the pedestal, and verify you have 120 vac on both legs at the trailer end of the power cord. If so, then the next step is to check the 120 vac distribution panel. This will eliminate the pedestal and the power cord as the problem before going deeper.

Again, assuming YOU ARE COMFORTABLE TROUBLESHOOTING LIVE 120 VAC.

mtlakejim · 08-29-2018, 08:51 AM

Once again a thread that points out how important knowing how to use a volt meter is to anyone who owns an RV!!

I suspect others on here are correct in that you either lost one side of your 50 amp or perhaps there is one circuit that has loose wire at breaker or along its run. With a. Volt meter you can quickly trace down the issue by starting at power pedestal then end of your shore power cord then breaker. In other words keep working downstream till you isolate the issue

Best of luck

mhs4771 · 08-29-2018, 08:53 AM

One of the advantages of a Good EMS, well let you know if you have good power coming into the RV. If we lose a leg, neutral, or ground all power will be shut down to the RV until fixed.

Fish · 08-29-2018, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhs4771

One of the advantages of a Good EMS, well let you know if you have good power coming into the RV. If we lose a leg, neutral, or ground all power will be shut down to the RV until fixed.

My ems says I'm good.

BB_TX · 08-29-2018, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

My ems says I'm good.

Is that hardwired or plug in?

Fish · 09-01-2018, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB_TX

Is that hardwired or plug in?

It's a progressive plug in.

Called the dealer and talked to a service tech and here's what I found out.

It's common for the ceiling fan to be wired in with the non gfci receptacles. There are no junction boxes in the trailer anywhere, just daisy chained from one recp to the next until you reach the end one. I have to pull each recp and check them until I find the disconnect. The recp that I thought was the culprit is at the end of the chain so that isn't the one. I've pulled 2 so far. There are 7 total.
I'm home for labor day weekend but when I get back to the trailer I'll start doing this.

Eagleback · 09-01-2018, 08:29 AM

Make sure your shore power plug into the unit is fully inserted. I had half of my power go out and found the plug not all the way in.

BB_TX · 09-01-2018, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

My ems says I'm good.

Any thing electrical and electronic can fail. Did you verify that you actually have both 120 vac hot legs coming into the trailer? And power at the load side of every circuit breaker. It is possible that the EMS failed in such a way that it registers proper power into the EMS but not actually passing that power thru the EMS. Or you could have a problem in your power cord. Or a problem to the distribution panel. Or loose wire(s) in the distribution panel. I would make sure of having proper voltage to the trailer before tearing things apart. Easy to pull the cover off the 120 vac distribution panel and verify proper power there. I had a lot of wires connections in my distribution panels that were marginally tight; hot, neutral, ground. Also the 12 volt connections.

Thunderman · 09-05-2018, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

It's a progressive plug in.

Called the dealer and talked to a service tech and here's what I found out.

It's common for the ceiling fan to be wired in with the non gfci receptacles. There are no junction boxes in the trailer anywhere, just daisy chained from one recp to the next until you reach the end one. I have to pull each recp and check them until I find the disconnect. The recp that I thought was the culprit is at the end of the chain so that isn't the one. I've pulled 2 so far. There are 7 total.
I'm home for labor day weekend but when I get back to the trailer I'll start doing this.

connect your 50 amp adapter to a 30 amp adapter then plug into 30 amp receptacle. If you have power back then you know you were getting power tonly half of the 50 amp.. Problem could be the breaker at campground receptacle.

rohrmann · 09-05-2018, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

It's a progressive plug in.

Called the dealer and talked to a service tech and here's what I found out.

It's common for the ceiling fan to be wired in with the non gfci receptacles. There are no junction boxes in the trailer anywhere, just daisy chained from one recp to the next until you reach the end one. I have to pull each recp and check them until I find the disconnect. The recp that I thought was the culprit is at the end of the chain so that isn't the one. I've pulled 2 so far. There are 7 total.
I'm home for labor day weekend but when I get back to the trailer I'll start doing this.

One of the downsides of the plugin EMS compared to the hardwired is it does not check for a bad shore power cable or the cable connectors, where the hardwired will see the shore cable. We plugged in at a park last year and the EMS would not power up the trailer. Turned out to be the ground prong on the shore cable had broken inside the plug, and the only way it was found was when I had tried using a 50 to 30 amp dogbone and then disconnected from it, the ground prong stayed in the dogbone. I was able to find a replacement plug and changed it out.

Randy E · 09-06-2018, 10:35 AM

Hello.
When we got our new RV , we had nothing but electrical problems for a full year. The short version is, power would go out on kitchen outlets, ceiling fan, refrigerator and the hot water tank. Without doing anything it would come back on days later. Many trips to repair center and changed almost every electrical component to no advale. The last time I was there while working on the coach, a tech tripped on the shore power cord causing an immediate failure. We then wiggled the plug, and it failed every time. All 4 items listed above. We pulled the 50 amp plug out of the back only to find 1 wire was not even in the plug! It was only stuffed in the hole and not clamped at all. We found 2 of the 4 wires were not clamped. We changed the plug in ten minutes, because here was burn marks inside the plug. We now have not had an issue all summer. I’ve attached a photo. Everything that kept quitting was on that one wire. Also note that in the photo the Black wire is in the Red hole. And the Red wire is in the Black Hole. I know both are Hot wires. But for as easy as it is to get it right , you’d think the factory tech would get his colors right. Also notice the clamp screws in the photo. They are fully backset and were never tightened at all.

I’d check there first. It’s an easy check. 4 screws pulls the plug out. For safety. Turn the battery disconnect off and obviously pull the shore power cord out.

Best of luck.
Randy & Tracy E
Hermitage Pa.

Texan · 09-06-2018, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohrmann

One of the downsides of the plugin EMS compared to the hardwired is it does not check for a bad shore power cable or the cable connectors, where the hardwired will see the shore cable. We plugged in at a park last year and the EMS would not power up the trailer. Turned out to be the ground prong on the shore cable had broken inside the plug, and the only way it was found was when I had tried using a 50 to 30 amp dogbone and then disconnected from it, the ground prong stayed in the dogbone. I was able to find a replacement plug and changed it out.

And this Bob is the best argument for having the hardwire. Nothing like learning from experience. Thanks for sharing.

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