Surge protectors/Autoformers

[ols1932]

I may be opening a can of worms here but must post what I've just heard. A friend of mine has an autoformer and a surge protector hard wired in his rig and when he hooked up his Honda 2000i generator, he burned the generator out. Cost him $400 to repair it.

This is another reason I like the portable units. Don't need either a surge protector or autoformer when using my Honda 2000i.

Just thought I'd pass this bit of information on to those who may care.

Orv

[David and Jo-Anna]

Orv--any idea whether it was the autoformer or the surge protector that caused the generator problem? I'd guess it was the autoformer--maybe he had a heavy load in his rig which caused the voltage to drop, and the autoformer overloaded the generator when it tried to pull more current to make up for the voltage drop. Just surprised that his generator didn't trip out under those circumstances rather than burn out.

Can't see how the surge protector would have caused the generator to burn out, even if it was a Surge Guard type of device that cut off because of a low or high voltage reading. Or am I missing something here?

[Ozz]

Sorry Irv, but statements like this just drive me crazy. Too many variables to even write down, also how many details do you know about this event? Does one condemn a product, or products based upon 'I heard' 'A friend' or 'someone told me.'

"Just the facts, mam"

[ols1932]

Not trying to condemn any products. My post did not do that. I merely posted what happened. I don't know what the details were. He shared it with me because he knows that I have a Surge Guard, autoformer, and a Honda 200i and he didn't want me to do something that may possibly be trouble for me. He isn't full time like a lot of us are. I called him and he said there was no extra load on his rig when he connected the Honda. He merely needed to charge his batteries which he had done previously before he hard-wired the surge protector and autoformer.

I don't need an autoformer when I use my Honda. I don't need the surge protector when I use my Honda.

Ozz, you seem to be well-versed in many subjects but I can't give you any more details than I already have. Rather than keep this incident to myself, I thought it important enough to let the rest of the MOCers know what happened. It's an incident just like Rich posted when he let us know about the wiring problem in his rig. Did that happen to all of us? No. Will this incident that I posted happen to all of us? No.

In the past, when I've run across a bad product, I've never condemned it. I usually will say that I won't buy that product again. Example: I'll never take a vehicle to AAMCO again, nor will I purchase anything from Radio Shack again. Doesn't condemn, merely states my feelings.

I think I've given you "Just the facts, Ma'am."

Orv

[Ozz]

Orv, you are a good guy, the additional information in your last post sheds more light on the topic, thanks for adding the info.
There was obviously more to the story, it would be interesting to read the repair bill, and possible cause.
We still pals??

[DarMar]

Thanks for the heads up on this Orv. If we as a group through discussion can identify why the problem arose we can learn from others experiences. No one wants needless repair bills.

[richfaa]

Many of us on the forum are "detail orientated" Myself included and we question to find out as much as we can about the incident so that it will not happen to us. Please take questions the in the proper prospective and do not let the questions prevent anyone from posting a Heads up as Orv did. Questions =answers= education. I share what has happend to our Montana and the conditions under which they happened not suggesting that they might happen to your montana but that they happened to mine and my experience may make your Montana experience more rewarding.

[Ozzie]

I can say from my own perspective I appreciate these type of threads. I can take walls apart and rebuild them, do cabinets and sheet metal fabrication, but don't possess the electrical skills that many of you seem to have at this forum. Consequently I always read with interest, but seldom post as there is little I can contribute.
I do want to learn though, and I have picked up many good tidbits from reading here...so thank you!

[harleyrider]

I have both the autoformer and the surge guard.I usually use them both while at camp grounds-not always but more times then not.I also have the Yahama with the boost feature.I never hook up the autoformer or the surge guard while running my generator.I just figure that the power of the generator is more reliable then camp ground power.I`ve noticed that people running off generators very rarely use any sort of protection(surge guard/autoformer)or what ever.

[exav8tr]

That is exactly why I am having my surge protector and autoformer installed using plug ins on each piece so they can be removed or isolated if need be. A little extra money but I think, from what I have read on here, that might be the best way to go. If, for example, my autoformer burns out or goes haywire, I can bypass it using the plug ins. Then I would still have power to the rest of the rig. Same goes for the surge protector, if need be. Does this sound logical to you electricians????

I am also planning on buying the Honda 2000's (2) and parallel them together for boondocking. Interested in finding out what happened to your friends system Orv.....

[ols1932]

pparamore,
Will let everyone know when he tells me. I'm thinking there may have been a conflict between the Honda and the autoformer. The Honda has it's own voltage booster and it makes me think that was where the problem was. Eventually I'll find out. He's not a happy camper right now and I can understand why. I'm with you in having the items manually plugged in so they can be removed at will and even transferred to use with another rig, should one desire.

Orv

[richfaa]

I also have the autoformer and the 50amp surge guard. We use the surge guard on a regular basis. We woud not hook up without it. We have not yet used the auto former. We also have the Kipor 3500 Gen and would not use either device when on generator.I am beginning to think that the Auto former was a waste of money as a good surge guard will do the job... I am much more concerned with a power surge than a slight increase or decrease of power.

[Broome101]

My two cents are someone has something hooked up incorrectly when it was hard wired in. One of the two devices even the generator all three have breakers to prevent such thing happening. If one of the three units did not kick a breaker when it back feed into he generator something is wired wrong. Just my tow cents worth.

[Cat320]

When we find out all the details, maybe Ozz can put on his electrician's hat and explain what happened. My first thought was a warning I read about backup generators and stick houses...and if the back up generator is incorrectly wired into the stick house you can fry everything.

[ols1932]

An update to my first post. The wiring of the two units was proper, according to my friend. It was done by a journeyman electrician. That's about as professional as you can get. The Honda repair people told him that Honda generator doesn't like being fed into an autoformer. It seems that there is some kind of electrical mismatch between the output transformer of the Honda and the input turns of the autoformer. So that's about all I can report. I for one will NEVER connect my Honda through an autoformer or surge protector. Why would I need to? The generator is known for its stability. I know, there could be that time when it could put out a surge! But that's highly unlikely.

Orv

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Al tells me that before our purchase of autoformer, he talked to them on the phone and that they said not to use autoformer and generator together. Sure there is some complicated electrical explanation, someone can explain it if they care to, meanwhile for us, no boondocking, no generator, no problem.

[azstar]

Hi All,
Someone posted about a year or so ago about just such a problem. Maybe they were just asking what might happen.
I needed to use a Gen. last summer and remembering that Post I was thankfull I had put a pigtail in line to bypass the AF when I hard wired my AutoFormer in place.
I did disconnect my AF but left my S/G in the loop with out any problem. Can't quite see how a hard wired S/G could become an issue with the Gen., although I'm not a EE. Gave my heart to ME many moons ago.
Happy camping

[keham]

Hmm!! Remember Generators are known to have power surges. I have seen them on scopes During test we ran during a Ham fest day. Oh they do pretty good. But If one really wants the 110v electronics in the RV protected. They need the inverter type generators and a very good EMI surge protector. Please with todays electronics they need good EMI surge protection weather its shore power or generator power.

[bsmeaton]

Just curious, but I thought the Hondas were inverter type generators?

[keham]

Bsmeaton

the 2000 are and one of the 3000 series is. But one need to check as they have many that are not. same with Yamaha.