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Old 10-19-2017, 03:02 PM   #21
phillyg
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I've had three occasions where I needed to use 4WD, the last time in my flat storage lot after heavy rains. So yes, I'll stick with 4WD.
 
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Old 10-19-2017, 04:42 PM   #22
TLightning
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I have six pick ups, never had 4wd, never wished I did. We don't travel when bad winter weather is forecast and don't go where we might have a traction problem. One thing 4wd will do, is get you stuck farther in the boonies that a 2wd will.
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Old 10-19-2017, 05:58 PM   #23
richfaa
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We attend a lot of rallies that tend to be in Fairgrounds with grassy fields. We were at a Escapees rally in Sedilia,Mo fairgrounds a few years ago and it rained near every day and turned into a sea of mud. Every tow truck within 50 miles were there pulling out RV's. Most 4X4s got out including us. Put it in 4X4 low and idled out. Happened again at a FCRV rally in WVA.
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Old 10-19-2017, 06:22 PM   #24
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I was in Niagra Falls rained every day. Campground had a drainage problem. Sea of mud and muck drop it into 4wd and idled out. Unhooked and went back to help some 2x2 that were stuck. Mileage? if I wanted fuel mileage I would not rv and drive a toyota. just my 4 cents.
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Old 10-20-2017, 03:44 AM   #25
Phil P
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Hi

If it doesn’t have 3 drive axles I don’t need all wheel drive. The only time in 200,000 miles that I could not pull out of a bad situation with our 3500 4X2 I would have damage the trailer had I tried. The trailer axels had fallen thru a culvert.

I don’t want the additional weight of the transfer case and additional drive line.

What you really need to be concerned about with the 4X4 is damaging the trailer.

The axel arrangement under the Keystone trailers is not the best to start with and you go dragging any of these units thru soft earth buy just pulling on them will lead to frame, spring and spring shackle problems.

Instead of the weight of 4X4 running gear I carry 2 bottle jacks and 6 wood 4X4 blocks 24 inches long. This got me out of the failed culvert without putting any further stress on the frame of the trailer and without having any tow help.

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Old 10-20-2017, 09:11 PM   #26
mtlakejim
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I have worked in the oilfield for decades. It is a tough environment for pickups and since I have worked for two major companies that lease their light trucks I also have some knowledge based on large volumes of data. Based off of that experience I feel I can offer the following:
Diesel trucks are worth the extra cost IF you will be doing a significant amount of towing and plan to run the truck out on miles before a trade.
Four wheel drive has a significantly higher resale value IF you don't plan to run out the miles.
Four wheel drive trucks typically don't have significantly higher mantaince compared to two wheel drive IF they are used in similar conditions. In fact in some cases the four wheel drive trucks actually had lower maintaince costs apparently due to the fact that in muddy conditions they put less strain on the drive train. I personally have been in some extremely difficult road conditions (frac jobs on top of mountains in the middle of snow storms where they were actually using bulldozers to pull 18wheelers up the road...granted probably not the kind of conditions you would see pulling the average 5th wheel LOL but you do get a very real sense of what the capabilities of trucks are).
Dually trucks have significantly better stability under heavy trailer loads (like large 5th wheels). They also tend to have greater breaking ability which is just as important as how well they pull!!
Diesel trucks have the all important exhaust braking feature. It only takes one time going down a steep hill and smelling the hot brakes on a gas burner to make you appreciate that feature!
I have driven 1500, 2500 and 3500 pulling trailers and managed fleets of drivers in all three as well. There is a very good reason why we have a Dodge 3500 diesel dually 4x4 now! You will NEVER go wrong having more truck than you need but just once plowing into someone because you didn't have enough truck can ruin your life. The slight fuel savings you might see from a lighter truck is quickly forgotten when your holding on for dear life to a truck that is towing at near it's rating....Not to mention that if your towing at near capacity the wear and tear is significantly higher! And lets be honest there isn't that much difference in costs between a 2500 and a 3500. When you factor in the higher maintance costs caused by pushing a truck to its limits you will find that in the end the two cost about the same per mile. So why not get the heavier truck which is safer to drive?
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Old 10-21-2017, 04:53 AM   #27
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I have had six pickups over the years,2- 2x4 and 4-4x4. The one thing i learned pulling boats and 5th wheels sooner or later you are going to need 4 wheel drive,if you have it great if you dont your going wish you did.
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Old 10-21-2017, 07:39 AM   #28
richfaa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtlakejim View Post
I have worked in the oilfield for decades. It is a tough environment for pickups and since I have worked for two major companies that lease their light trucks I also have some knowledge based on large volumes of data. Based off of that experience I feel I can offer the following:
Diesel trucks are worth the extra cost IF you will be doing a significant amount of towing and plan to run the truck out on miles before a trade.
Four wheel drive has a significantly higher resale value IF you don't plan to run out the miles.
Four wheel drive trucks typically don't have significantly higher mantaince compared to two wheel drive IF they are used in similar conditions. In fact in some cases the four wheel drive trucks actually had lower maintaince costs apparently due to the fact that in muddy conditions they put less strain on the drive train. I personally have been in some extremely difficult road conditions (frac jobs on top of mountains in the middle of snow storms where they were actually using bulldozers to pull 18wheelers up the road...granted probably not the kind of conditions you would see pulling the average 5th wheel LOL but you do get a very real sense of what the capabilities of trucks are).
Dually trucks have significantly better stability under heavy trailer loads (like large 5th wheels). They also tend to have greater breaking ability which is just as important as how well they pull!!
Diesel trucks have the all important exhaust braking feature. It only takes one time going down a steep hill and smelling the hot brakes on a gas burner to make you appreciate that feature!
I have driven 1500, 2500 and 3500 pulling trailers and managed fleets of drivers in all three as well. There is a very good reason why we have a Dodge 3500 diesel dually 4x4 now! You will NEVER go wrong having more truck than you need but just once plowing into someone because you didn't have enough truck can ruin your life. The slight fuel savings you might see from a lighter truck is quickly forgotten when your holding on for dear life to a truck that is towing at near it's rating....Not to mention that if your towing at near capacity the wear and tear is significantly higher! And lets be honest there isn't that much difference in costs between a 2500 and a 3500. When you factor in the higher maintance costs caused by pushing a truck to its limits you will find that in the end the two cost about the same per mile. So why not get the heavier truck which is safer to drive?
Great information based on actual experience.
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Old 10-21-2017, 09:12 AM   #29
mtlakejim
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Thanks for the compliment Richfaa.


I might also mention that I personally can't tell the difference in the ride between a 2 wheel drive and the 4x4 in stock configuration. Now if you get the offroad versions it is a different story. I was also surprised at how good the ride is with our Dodge 3500 but as you may well have guessed I am no buttercup. So if it is the ride that keeps you from going 4x4 I would rule that out but just to be sure test ride both.


If it is fuel mileage your worried about, it is my experience that there isn't much if any difference there either.


Basically, other than a slight cost difference there isn't a good reason not to get the 4x4. It's there if and when you need it and helps with resale value so why not? Same goes for going from 2500 to 3500.
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Old 10-21-2017, 10:27 AM   #30
richfaa
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We also can not tell the difference between 2x2 and 4X4 in the ride and we have had both. We are not all that concerned with MPG as no matter what it is not going to be good. We increased our MPG and towing by going from a F-350 V-10 to the diesel.We are concerned with safely towing a long, heavy RV. Although our F-350 was ordered heavy duty everything, Snow plow package, camper package giving us a GVW of 13K. it is not used as a off road vehicle. It is a tow vehicle.


If used as a daily driver there are other issues to consider.
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Old 10-21-2017, 10:30 AM   #31
Beau2010
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Have owned several 4X4s over the years but I'm not farming anymore and have never felt the need of having one now. Our 3500 dually goes where we want/need to go, which is never on ice, mud or snow. We have stayed longer than planned several times to let the roads clear, but I have driven on slick surfaces enough to know that a 4X4 is not the answer when towing a 15,000 lb rig. It doesn't stop any better than any other. As my dad used to say, a 4 wheel drive just lets you go to a whole lot worse place to get stuck.
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Old 10-21-2017, 02:26 PM   #32
richfaa
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I would not even try to tow on a slick surface or for that matter snow. We have done both and will never do it again. Many folks think that because they have a 4X4 they can go anywhere on a slick surface you will just have all 4 wheels sliding. They are good in deep snow I have banged through some pretty deep snow with a 4X4.
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Old 10-21-2017, 09:34 PM   #33
mtlakejim
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Beau and Rich,
I am with both of you that folks should not drive on slick roads. However, there are occasions where you don't have a lot of choice. On those occasions, having 4x4 can make a difference in the hands of an EXPERIENCED and WISE driver. Being from an area where at least a third of the male population under 30 has a jacked up mud hogging 4x4, I can attest for the overpopulation of bullet proof idiots on the highways when they should be at home!!


My best advice on this topic is as follows:
Get the 4x4 because there really isn't much reason not too.
Don't drive in adverse conditions unless you have no other option.
Gain some skill at driving in adverse conditions while your NOT towing in case you do have to get out there. In particular learn to use the diesel exhaust brake system!
Slow the heck down in bad conditions because despite what some folks might think NONE of us are bullet proof!!!!!


Do I sound like a safe driving instructor? Sorry the truth is I once thought I was bullet proof and had to learn the hard way......I was just one of the lucky ones that lived thru the stupid BS I did when I was younger. Old folks don't drive slower because we can't see to drive fast. We drive slower because we have been in a wreck and we know that it hurts like hell the next day! Sorta the same reason we don't party all night before a work day.......
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:52 AM   #34
TLightning
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A few years back, I had a young friend who was debating this issue. He really didn't want a 4x4 with the added initial cost and maint, reduced MPG, etc...plus he didn't really need it. So got the 2wd, and some how managed to get hold of Z71 and 4x4 sticker package and put it on the truck. So he had all the 'coolness' of a 4wd, like his friends, but the advantages of a 2wd...that he really wanted any way.
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:27 AM   #35
mtlakejim
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TLighting,
I have to admit to "dressing up" my rides back in the day. I'll even admit I am looking at ordering the highlight vinyl from Keystone for my truck so it matches the 5th wheel (my truck is bare white no frills). But now that I am using the truck for towing I look at "performance" from a different perspective. In my case the 5th wheel isn't the only thing I tow. I have tractors and property so the 4x4 is a no brainer for me even with the dually. When I have to pull a loaded trailer out of a muddy field I don't want any question I have everything pulling for me to get out. Likewise if I ever get stuck in the beginnings of a snow storm in Yellowstone (which I have had happen) I want to know I will be able to get the heck out of there!
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:44 PM   #36
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I have had a 4X4 truck since 1976. A June trip west saw about a foot of snow on Wolfe Creek Pass and snow on stretches in WY. That was the only trip 4 wheel drive was needed while towing. However, 2 things come to mind~ a 2 wheel drive SD truck is hard to find and worthless at trade in.
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Old 10-24-2017, 10:30 AM   #37
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I've had to use several times after being at a wet grassy campground along the coast. 5er settled into the ground (with blocks under tires) and all the TV would do in 2WD is spin the tires. Even pulled our friends out in their 2WD. He has since bought a 4WD. Used many times in the Sierras where unexpected snow/rain would have stranded us in our fav campground which is gravel with steep hills. Have pulled 4 different campers who were stranded with their 2WDs. 4WD is all I will ever have.
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Old 10-24-2017, 11:04 AM   #38
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My guess would be that no one posting here has ever camped at a Nascar race when its raining cats and dogs. We have been to Richmond/dover/Talladega/Bristol etc.

On multiple occasions I have seen many RVs buried to the axles in mud. On one occasion a high $ prevost bus sank all 3 axles afoot into the ground.

There is a camp site we have been going to in SW Pa for 25 years where without 4x4 I would not be getting the trailer to our site (very rustic campground)

So its 4x4 for us.
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Old 10-27-2017, 07:24 AM   #39
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Thanks guys for the input. I have looked at a few 3500hd trucks [4x4] and most dealers have 2 options.. WORK TRUCKS and LTZ .. Really like some of the things on LTZ but not the price. The work truck is just a little plain for my taste so I am in the search for a LT optioned truck. Would even consider a flatbed since getting into the bed of these newer trucks is a pain. So for now I will keep my 2500hd 4x4 and be a happy camper..... OH and the good deal on the 2 wheel drive dually is long gone...just like I knew it would be.
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Old 10-27-2017, 09:08 AM   #40
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It was a temporary good deal because no one wanted it. If the owner keeps it until it dies he got a good deal. When he tries to sell or trade it will not seem so great.
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