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Old 10-30-2012, 04:08 AM   #1
trlrboy
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No 110V power

I went to pick up the trailer where I have it stored and plugged into a 110V 30A outlet. I found the trailer totally dead. No 110V. No 12V (new battery). LP tanks empty. Apparently the 110V died somewhere which changed the refrigerator to LP and ran out the tank and the battery just ran itself down.

I have a 50A surge protector but the display doesn't show anything at all, just stays dark. All the circuit breakers look OK and none of the GFI plugs was popped.

Help!
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:19 AM   #2
Ozz
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Well, it's 6:12 A.M. where I am, so I am a little foggy-headed, so hope I make sense. Check the storage location plug to make sure there is power there first.
Check to see the 12 volt key-turn red switch is on, check the power cord to the trailer. You must have a power supply problem to the trailer.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:14 AM   #3
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There is a topic on the opening page on the use of a multi meter which is a good refresher on how to test the different plugs. You will have to start at the source and then work through the system.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:44 AM   #4
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X3, this sounds like an outside the trailer problem. Start at the outlet and work back.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:46 AM   #5
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I have a story that I have not shared on this forum yet. I just replaced my 2006 2955RL with a 2007 3075RL. The reason I did this is because the 2955RL burned to the chassis! The reason that 2955RL burned to the chassis is because the MH parked next to the 2955RL in the storage building, started a fire caused by a refrigerator left on.

I'll try to keep the story as brief as possible. The fire caused by the MH refer burned a 40'x300' storage building containing ~four million dollars worth of MHs fifth wheels and boats. Two teams of fire investigators hired collectively by the insurers of the RVs and the building worked for three months pursuing root cause for the purpose of subrogation collection. We the RV owners and the building owner were paid quickly by our insurers.

All who had RVs or boats stored in the building were questioned about known energy sources left turned on or connected. They know that battery tenders are pretty common in RV storage. The higher risk was those connected to 110 power through normal shore power system. Least risk was those with no battery tender or shore connection at all. battery tender connected to disconnected batteries were a little more suspect than no energy connection at all. LP gas bottles left open were also high risk especially if 12V power was on.

Heat destruction pointed to area in building at my fifth wheel and the MH right next to me. After determining that the MH was connected to shore power AND had the refer on AUTO, the two investigation teams concentrated on the MH. They called and or met with me several times during the investigation after videos showed first signs of fire between mine and the MH. One of the more experienced investigators told me that 80-90% of RV fires in storage are caused by ammonia refers left on AUTO. They have replicated scenarios where 12V control systems malfunction and allow LP gas to flow without ignitor working properly. A gas 'cloud' or pocket builds and then the ignitor decides to work. They described it as sequencing properly to satisfy the permissive to open the gas solenoid but having insufficient spark-to-gas integration.

Some free advice from these folks who investigate fires all over the country is (1) that the safest mode of operation for an ammonia refer is to run it on AC when AC is available. (2) Always inspect ignitor connections and watch initial start up ignition when running on gas, to ensure control system is working properly. (3) If you leave refer on in storage, turn off the gas bottles. (4) Always turn off gas bottles in storage whether running refer or not. (5) SAFEST connection for battery tenders is 12 gauge extension cord directly to tender with battery disconnected from coach. Insure plug connections are tight and positioned and secured to maintain tight connection.(6) Even safer way of maintaining batteries is to remove from coach and place on tender or charger in open well ventilated area where hydrogen gas cannot concentrate. Battery compartments in boats and RVs are prone to collecting hydrogen from batteries, even with vented battery box.
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:13 AM   #6
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Good story fauch.
My money is go to #6 and leave EVERYTHING un-connected, no 12 volt or 120 volt at all if un-attended, but a close second is a solid-state (Resin-encapsulated) properly fused battery tender hard-wired to the battery/ies. The clamps should be replaced by ring connectors and wired to the battery for maximum safety, or get good strong clamps for the as a second choice. Leave everything off from the battery disconnect switch upstream. (Which I guess it would be... :0 ) I was thinking the line voltage, or 120 volts.
You would not need a 12 Gage cord, a 14 would work, assuming you are close to a proper outlet. Battery tenders usually pull just a few amps; A/C. The weak link in cords is usually a bad cord end or a bad plug-in end for the load, assuming the cord is properly sized for the length of run and the load.
The malfunction of an igniter/gas valve would be extremely rare, they usually fail on the safe side. But I guess it could happen, but in my 40+ years of electrical and heating control work, I have never seen a gas valve/igniter combo fail. (Open)
Very good post. Thanks, sorry your 5er got caught up in the fire.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:26 PM   #7
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Sorry for your loss, good advice for those who store their rig!
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:51 PM   #8
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Thanks OZZ! always great info from the pro. The investigators' lab testing shows, not a failed solenoid control, in fact these experiments replicated all per-missives functioning, including power to the igniter. the failure was only spark-to gas effectiveness, either from loose 'spark-plug wire' or damaged electrode. circuits were satisfied, but ignition was 'impotent' so to speak. These investigators did not conduct or design these tests. independent labs were hired by insurance companies to 'discover' ways that these refrigerator fires might be started.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:06 PM   #9
trlrboy
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OK, so back on track...
When I got home from work today I tried the 50A power cord vs the 30A one. Still no power. Both the 30A and 50A cords were good according to my multimeter. So there's power to the plug going into the trailer.

Next step. Called Progressive and talked to a tech about the surge protector. He said to open it up and check to see if there is power on the inlet side. If there is I should call back and they would walk me through a checkout. OK, so there's power between L1 and L3 so indeed there is power on the inlet to the surge protector. Called Progressive. They are closed for the night... more tomorrow.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:49 PM   #10
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Is the protector hard-wired? Can you by-pass it? (Sorry for getting off track.)
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:57 AM   #11
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...your finding dead batteries and empty propane tanks on stored camper puts ME on high alert after my experience
sorry for getting your trouble-shooting off track

This is from Progressive Industries' instruction manual:

The green Surge Indicator lights tell you the condition of the surge
protector circuits. When the green indicator lights are lit, surge protector is
functional; if not, surge protector is compromised and needs to be replaced
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:22 AM   #12
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I worked 35 years in the operation of petro-chemical plants. Control systems and protective function systems do fail. it's a rare occurrence but even with million dollar instrumentation loops, i have seen failure. this is why we spent the big bucks where catastrophic risks existed to install redundant IPFs (instrumented protective functions)
like OZZ said, bypassing the surge protector is probably the most certain way of determining it's condition
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:48 PM   #13
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OK, I give up. I don't have power on both hot inlets into the surge protector. Spent 45 minutes on the phone yesterday with them and since they can't really help much since it doesn't have power going in like it's supposed to. I'm going to take it to the dealer since I have an extended warranty and let them figure it out.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:56 PM   #14
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If it is a Progressive Industries EMS hard-wired system, there is a switch on the EMS to bypass the EMS. If this puts power to the rig, then I would surmise that the EMS has died.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:07 AM   #15
trlrboy
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by bncinwv

If it is a Progressive Industries EMS hard-wired system, there is a switch on the EMS to bypass the EMS. If this puts power to the rig, then I would surmise that the EMS has died.
Bingo
There are two hot wires going into the inlet side of the surge protector. Only one is showing 110V when I power it up so the unit doesn't light up the remote which is where the bypass switch is.

Thus... no power at in in trailer. Taking it to dealer tomorrow AM.
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