2017 3731FL hydraulic slide problems - Montana Owners Club

R Berry · 08-05-2017, 07:44 PM

On the 3731FL I have one rocker that controls three slides. The kitchen with the refrigerator side, the bedroom slide with the bed and the other kitchen slide which would be the table slide the smallest of the three.
The way they work is the frig comes out first then the bed and last the table.
Going out is not the problem, but coming in is a whole different story.
First the frig will start to move in and about 3/4th of the way in the bed starts to move in, but only about 2-3 inches, and it has a little twist when it starts to come in. After about 3" the bed will stop, the frig will come all the way in. At this point I can hold the rocker switch for along time and the bed will not move. So if the bed won't go in ether will the table slide go in. If the bed does go in (does not happen very often) the table slide will follow it in.
I've had this thing back to the dealer several times. And I can tell they are clueless! and its not like they are just around the corner 70 miles one way.
This has been a problem since I bought it new this year. It's hard to use the thing when I'm not sure if i can get the slides to close.
Now here is what the dealer has done OR broken so far.
The first time the said that the hydraulic valve block was bad. this is the three knobs that are under the Lippert control pad. On the back side of the three knobs it has three hydraulic lines going to the the slides (I think). Well what the dealer did was to put a pair of vice grips on the stem of one of the valve and broke it. So they called me and said that this part was bad and have to order a new one from keystone. Keystone does not stock this part, over a month to get it in. But here was the work around they said to do. When I was ready to close the slide, I will need to use a 9/16 wrench on the back side of the valve block and switch the first two line around and then close the slides like I would normally. and this did work, just that my hands was cover in hydraulic fluid and fluid ran down the inside of the RV.
Over a month later I take it back to the dealer because the new valve block was in. they said it would not take long to replace and that I would able to wait and take the RV back the same day. I informed them that if you open the slides and turn right around and close them that it will close up. so I drop it of went into town came back about 2 hours later and they said it was good to go. But they didn't have time to test it with me because it was their lunch time. So I take it home open the slides, waited a couple of hours and the bed slide would not close.
I called the dealer back and told that it still was not fix. I ask if they even tested it and she said they just open and closed right back, like I told her it would close right back up!
Now they are guessing that maybe the coils are bad that are located near the hydraulic fluid reservoir. There are three coils, two are for the slides and one for the jacks. they told me to reverse the leads on two of the coils to the slide and see if that would close them, it did once.
so two weeks ago they said they were going to order new coils. I've called them several times and I can't get a return call! I would just like to get the thing fix so I could use it a little before the Summer is gone.
I did call Keystone once, what a run around! according to them it has to be the batteries! I do have it plugged into power.
Has any one experience this type of problem?
I mean with the RV not the dealerships service.

**Carl n Susan** · 08-05-2017, 09:24 PM

If I understand correctly, the slides come in and go out but the order changes and is not always consistent. That is pretty much how the system works. The hydraulic system for the slides uses a common line to move the hydraulic cylinders in or out. The order of the slide movement is based the path of least resistance. The easiest slide goes first, the next easiest , and the slide with the most resistance. This usually correlates to the weight of the slide and contents but can be affected by the presence of rollers or not. It is normal to see a slide move a few inches then stop until another slide has completed its travel. The hydraulic pressure in the line is equal to each cylinder and often a slide will start to move depending on it being a drop down type , even floor type, temperature, and/or weight of the slide.

Each of the three valves is associated with one slide. The valve has two positions - ON (i.e. hydraulic fluid under pressure can flow through it and actuate the cylinder) or OFF (valve is closed and no fluid or pressure can flow - the slide stays in what ever position it is currently). The valves are of the needle type and should seal without applying more than hand pressure. The use of vice grips is criminal. Oh yea, the normal position of the valves is pointing up. Rotate clockwise about 1/2 turn or so to close the valve.

If any of the valves are OFF, then that slide won't move. But your description is that they all closed, it is just the sequence sometimes is different. As I said before, this is normal

rohrmann · 08-05-2017, 09:51 PM

On our rig, with four slides, the lightest is the bed, and it moves first, and it's also the closest to the pump, then the fridge, then the TV/fireplace, and last the door side slide with the sofa and table, which is the largest and heaviest slide. The sequence going back in is the same as going out. When you were pushing the button originally to operate the slides, did the pump shut sown when the slide stopped operating? If so, maybe the thermal breaker on the wire to the pump was opening up, and if it was, it may be too light. Ours came with a 40 amp breaker and we had intermittent operation of the hydraulic system due to this breaker cutting power to the pump. I changed it out to an 80 amp breaker and have had no issues since.

phillyg · 08-06-2017, 10:22 PM

My kitchen slide usually comes in first, then the dining, then the bed, although I have seen the bed start and stop, then the kitchen started. As indicated by carl n susan, they normally follow the path of least resistance.

Drifty1 · 08-06-2017, 11:10 PM

I am going with Bob that the breaker is tripping. It sounds like your slides are adjusted correctly and not binding in anyway. I would not be concerned if they do not close in any order. The one with the least resistance will always be first. The stopping I think is the breaker and if your dealer did not check that first he is a ***ot.

cw3jason · 08-07-2017, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carl n susan

If I understand correctly, the slides come in and go out but the order changes and is not always consistent. That is pretty much how the system works. The hydraulic system for the slides uses a common line to move the hydraulic cylinders in or out. The order of the slide movement is based the path of least resistance. The easiest slide goes first, the next easiest , and the slide with the most resistance. This usually correlates to the weight of the slide and contents but can be affected by the presence of rollers or not. It is normal to see a slide move a few inches then stop until another slide has completed its travel. The hydraulic pressure in the line is equal to each cylinder and often a slide will start to move depending on it being a drop down type , even floor type, temperature, and/or weight of the slide.

Each of the three valves is associated with one slide. The valve has two positions - ON (i.e. hydraulic fluid under pressure can flow through it and actuate the cylinder) or OFF (valve is closed and no fluid or pressure can flow - the slide stays in what ever position it is currently). The valves are of the needle type and should seal without applying more than hand pressure. The use of vice grips is criminal. Oh yea, the normal position of the valves is pointing up. Rotate clockwise about 1/2 turn or so to close the valve.

If any of the valves are OFF, then that slide won't move. But your description is that they all closed, it is just the sequence sometimes is different. As I said before, this is normal

This is a great explanation of how the system works.

R Berry · 08-07-2017, 08:23 AM

The slide always on my unit closes OR opens in the same order. 1st. the largest frig/stove (heaviest). 2nd. the bed (king size) 2nd heaviest. and 3rd. the kitchen table smallest.
When the frig/stove starts to open the bed will follow about half way through the opening of the frig/stove. And after they are open then the smallest slide (table) will open.
I have no problems with any of the slides opening. They all open just fine and always in the same order, biggest to smallest.
Now upon closing that is where my problem starts.
They start to close in the same order they open, FRIG/STOVE 1ST, BED 2ND AND TABLE 3RD always in this order.
Now the frig/stove will close just fine no problems, and about 3/4th of the way in the bed tries to start to move in or close. And it will travel about 3" and stop.
The frig/stove will finish closing, but since the bed will not finish closing the 3rd slide (the table) will not even start to move in.
Yesterday (Sunday) I had the slides out, tried to close them and I got the same results like I always get the bed will not close. So I left them last night with the frig/stove slide close and and the bed where it moved about 3". So I went back out this morning (Monday) and push the rocker switch to close the slides and they close right up. since the frig/stove was already closed the bed started to finish closing and after it closed the table slide closed.
I understand about the valves and they are open. I'm going to try and close the valves for the frig/stove and table and see if the bed will open and close. Of course the are labeled wrong so I need to relabel the valves.
It would be nice to get this problem figure out, because it's hard to use the RV because I'm not sure if I go somewhere I could get the slides close

cw3jason · 08-07-2017, 08:29 AM

sounds like the auto resetting thermal breaker may also be giving you a problem. the stopping where non of the open slides will move anymore is usually because the amp draw causes the thermal breaker to open. once cooled it closes and everything works again, hence you were able to come back and close the slides. you only have to let it cool for a minute not overnight, but the best solution is to replace the breaker with an 80amp breaker. there is a lipsheet addressing this problem on Lipperts website. https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/...ippert0058.pdf

**DQDick** · 08-07-2017, 08:52 AM

I would certainly change the breaker and it's a surprise the dealer didn't do this first since it's a know problem going back to our 2010. We also have had several Montana's and while the slides normally have a certain way they open and close they didn't always do that and there is no reason why they can't open and close in any order.

R Berry · 08-07-2017, 08:55 AM

OK I have the 2 valves closed for the frig/stove and the table. I opened the bed slide and it would not close. It did move the 3" and then stopped.
So now I'm going to wait a few hours and see if the bed slide will finish the closing procedure.
I'm just trying to find some kind of pattern to the problem, I'm getting nothing from the dealership.
Hell! I can't even get them to return phone calls!
Seems like once the RV leaves the dealership they can care less, but that's a whole different thread.

scottanddeb · 08-07-2017, 08:57 AM

Hello. We also have a 2018 3731FL. It is normal that the slides do come in following a different order.
the 3 switches in the control box controls the flow to each one. When we stop at Walmarts we shut 2 of them off so only one slide will open for the kitchen.
I would run the the process with only one on each time to see if you can narrow down the slide with the issue. The should travel freely without appearance of any binding.

Lastly, I would also check the fluid levels.

Scott

R Berry · 08-07-2017, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cw3jason

sounds like the auto resetting thermal breaker may also be giving you a problem. the stopping where non of the open slides will move anymore is usually because the amp draw causes the thermal breaker to open. once cooled it closes and everything works again, hence you were able to come back and close the slides. you only have to let it cool for a minute not overnight, but the best solution is to replace the breaker with an 80amp breaker. there is a lipsheet addressing this problem on Lipperts website. https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/...ippert0058.pdf

I called the service department and they act like they have no idea about the circuit breaker problem, but they will get back to me.

Thanks for the data sheet I'm going to look at my circuit breaker and see which one I have.

R Berry · 08-07-2017, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Berry

OK I have the 2 valves closed for the frig/stove and the table. I opened the bed slide and it would not close. It did move the 3" and then stopped.
So now I'm going to wait a few hours and see if the bed slide will finish the closing procedure.
I'm just trying to find some kind of pattern to the problem, I'm getting nothing from the dealership.
Hell! I can't even get them to return phone calls!
Seems like once the RV leaves the dealership they can care less, but that's a whole different thread.

I just went out and the bed slide closed just fine, I do have the other to slides off so the are out of the loop.
After the bed slide closed, I opened it up about half way and then closed it back up, no problems. So I opened it about 3/4th of the way and closed it no problem. So I opened it till it was just about 6" from being all the way open and then closed it no problem. Then I opened it again, this time all the way the last 6" open, will not close. goes about the 3" and stops.
some of you guys talked about the circuit breaker. With my slide, when it stops I can still hear the hydraulic pump running. I assume if the breaker would kick off the pump would not run?
so I'm going to post this and then go out and try to close the bed slide again. It's been about 10 minutes since I'd tried it, so if it is (maybe) a circuit breaker problem then it should have time to reset.

Just tried to close the slide will not close

cw3jason · 08-07-2017, 11:54 AM

ok. doesn't sound like the breaker. you are correct pump would stop if it was the breaker, also only takes less then a minute for the breaker to reset. have you checked fluid level? with all slides in and gear up, like when you are hooked for travel the fluid should be 1/2 in from top. there is a fill line on the bottle. could also be air in the system, but running the slide in and out should work the air out.

R Berry · 08-07-2017, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cw3jason

ok. doesn't sound like the breaker. you are correct pump would stop if it was the breaker, also only takes less then a minute for the breaker to reset. have you checked fluid level? with all slides in and gear up, like when you are hooked for travel the fluid should be 1/2 in from top. there is a fill line on the bottle. could also be air in the system, but running the slide in and out should work the air out.

No I have not really check the level, I'll do that when I get the slide to close.
I'll hook it up to my truck and raise the jacks, I did ask the service department if they would check the level the last time I had it in there because one of their ways to get the slide in was to unhook 2 hydraulic lines from the valves and switch them around and the slide would close. But the next time that I would try to close the slide, it would not close unless I would reverse the lines again ( this would put them back to their original position). Every time of course I would lose fluid.
would you know what kind of hydraulic fluid it would use?

cw3jason · 08-07-2017, 01:58 PM

　
Maintenance
Preventative Maintenance Procedures

Change fluid in reservoir only every 36 months. A. Check fluid only when jacks and slideouts are fully retracted.
B. Always fill the reservoir with the jacks and slideouts in the fully retracted position. Filling reservoir when jacks are extended will cause reservoir to overflow into its compartment when jacks and slideouts are retracted.
C. When checking fluid level, fluid should be within 1/4" of fill spout lip.

Check the fluid level every month.

Inspect and clean all Pump Unit electrical connections every 12 months. If corrosion is evident, spray unit with WD-40 or equivalent.

Remove dirt and road debris from jacks and slideout arms as needed.

Fluid Recommendation
The Lippert Electronic/Hydraulic Leveling and Slideout System is pre-filled, primed and ready to operate direct from the manufacturer. Automatic transmission fluid (ATF) with Dexron III or Mercon 5 or a blend of both is recommended by Lippert Components, Inc.

anti stiction fluid for popping.
http://www.lci1.com/images/support/lipsheet/0295.pdf

Drifty1 · 08-07-2017, 02:41 PM

How about a loose wire on the wall switch. Or a bad switch.

R Berry · 08-07-2017, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifty1

How about a loose wire on the wall switch. Or a bad switch.

I don't think so because the other two slides are on the same switch and they ever fail to close.
about a half hour ago I unscrewed the hydraulic lines for the bed and the frig/stove and reversed them and the bed closed right up not problems.
Now if I go and open the bed it still will not close even though it just closed when I reversed the hydraulic.

Drifty1 · 08-07-2017, 06:03 PM

How about the relief or bypass for the hydraulic pressure set to low? Or something blocking the bed frame. Maybe there is debris of some type under the valve seat on that solenoid. Sorry I am just trying to thru any thoughts running through this thick noggen.

phillyg · 08-07-2017, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Berry

......out the 3" and stops......some of you guys talked about the circuit breaker. With my slide, when it stops I can still hear the hydraulic pump running. I assume if the breaker would kick off the pump would not run?......

The fact you can hear the pump running indicates its not the breaker, which is why I didn't suggest in my first response. Your issue seems to be unique and I can't recall anyone else with a similar situation. It has to be something in the hydraulics specific to the BR slide, perhaps a malfunctioning valve. I wish I could be more specific.

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