Comparing Tires, just an opinion

[Pocketlake1]

I've read the tire posts for the last 3 years and realize lots of opinions, some very passionate about manufacturer, ST vs LT, etc. Wanted to share my experience
Started with factory Tow Masters, which i'm sure some will refer to as China Bombs, but we made trips from Fla to Mich UP and also Alaska with no issues, so put about 20K miles before a blow, and I believe that was due to under inflation, accidentally running only 60psi when rated for 80.

I did a lot of listening and considering about going to LT's, but ended up purchasing a set of Goodyear Endurance last year. (yes, already how the Goodyear haters opinion will be on that) Have made trips from Fla to Nova Scotia and just returned from a great trip to Utah, so only have a little less than 15K on this set, but believe the Endurance is a pretty good ST.

I think what i consider our success so far is due to 2 things: I am religious about tire pressure now, and keep mine at 75 psi. When we were just in 17 degree weather at Bryce Canyon and heading to Arches, made sure with that cold temp i had them at 75

Also speed, the ST's i have are rated for only 60 MPH and that's what i drive on the highway. Get to my destination a little later, but keeps within the limits of the tire speed, and I'm delighted with the 13 mpg we get on our trips

All that being said, good chance i will go to LT's when i get a new set. No down side, plenty of upside and it only raises the trailer height by probably less than 2 inches

ps: loved the Utah parks, people and weather and now back home in Fla sweating, but happy it's only 85 right now and not 95
Safe Travels
Ken

[mlh]

I’ve been here since 2004 so I’ve seen a lot of tire problems. It’s my opinion you are a lucky man.
Lynwood

[CalandLinda]

Originally Posted by Pocketlake1

I've read the tire posts for the last 3 years and realize lots of opinions, some very passionate about manufacturer, ST vs LT, etc. Wanted to share my experience
Started with factory Tow Masters, which i'm sure some will refer to as China Bombs, but we made trips from Fla to Mich UP and also Alaska with no issues, so put about 20K miles before a blow, and I believe that was due to under inflation, accidentally running only 60psi when rated for 80.

I did a lot of listening and considering about going to LT's, but ended up purchasing a set of Goodyear Endurance last year. (yes, already how the Goodyear haters opinion will be on that) Have made trips from Fla to Nova Scotia and just returned from a great trip to Utah, so only have a little less than 15K on this set, but believe the Endurance is a pretty good ST.

I think what i consider our success so far is due to 2 things: I am religious about tire pressure now, and keep mine at 75 psi. When we were just in 17 degree weather at Bryce Canyon and heading to Arches, made sure with that cold temp i had them at 75

You should always insure your tires are inflated to the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressures found on the tire placard and in the vehicle owner's manual.

Also speed, the ST's i have are rated for only 60 MPH and that's what i drive on the highway. Get to my destination a little later, but keeps within the limits of the tire speed, and I'm delighted with the 13 mpg we get on our trips [COLOR="Blue"]Your new GY Endurance tires all have speed rating letters which are higher than 75 MPH./COLOR]

All that being said, good chance i will go to LT's when i get a new set. No down side, plenty of upside and it only raises the trailer height by probably less than 2 inches Replacement tires need to have a load capacity equal to or greater than the OE tires. There are no 16" LT tires in LRE that qualify to replace LRE ST tires.

ps: loved the Utah parks, people and weather and now back home in Fla sweating, but happy it's only 85 right now and not 95
Safe Travels
Ken

See blue above.

[dieselguy]

I beg to differ on the cold inflation pressure as it is a max pressure to max load. Use a load chart for the tire and sometimes you'll find that max rough riding pressure isn't needed. You will need to weigh your fiver loaded for a trip however. For example, if I run my TV rear tires to pressure on the door sticker ... it wears the centers of my tires well before the edges. If I drop that pressure 5 psi ... the rear tires wear evenly. I also beg to differ about the use of LT tires ... many of us run them with no issue. Many of us never come near being what the max allowed fully loaded weight is stamped on the side placard. Our LT tires handle our weight within spec.

[1retired06]

Ran LT TransForce Firestones for many years with no issues at 65MPH. Running at 75-80MPH, need the best G load tire you can afford.

[CalandLinda]

Originally Posted by dieselguy

I beg to differ on the cold inflation pressure as it is a max pressure to max load. Use a load chart for the tire and sometimes you'll find that max rough riding pressure isn't needed. You will need to weigh your fiver loaded for a trip however. For example, if I run my TV rear tires to pressure on the door sticker ... it wears the centers of my tires well before the edges. If I drop that pressure 5 psi ... the rear tires wear evenly. I also beg to differ about the use of LT tires ... many of us run them with no issue. Many of us never come near being what the max allowed fully loaded weight is stamped on the side placard. Our LT tires handle our weight within spec.

I don't post about what people do that work for them. I just report on how things are supposed to be done. Inflating tires installed under the guidance of regulations and standards for commercial use is not applicable to vehicles certified from FMVSS. Besides that, inflating tires to the load carried would require a weight slip every time the load changes.


Under FMVSS guidance, the correct inflation pressures for your vehicle's tires - OE tires - are found on the vehicle certification label, tire placard and in the vehicle owner's manual (a mandate). Deviations, if any, will be found in the vehicle owner's manual. (In fact, your tire placard will refer you to the owner's manual).


Using LT tires - other than those marked RST - to replace Original Equipment tires is considered a major deviation in tire design and considered a misapplication.

[CalandLinda]

Originally Posted by 1retired06

Ran LT TransForce Firestones for many years with no issues at 65MPH. Running at 75-80MPH, need the best G load tire you can afford.

Keystone used a lot of Original Equipment LT tires in model years 2005-2006. However, that only applied to the vehicles the tires were fitted to.

The federal certification label is the guide to check for tire design. What's on that label is the official tire design for that trailer, unless, Keystone had an optional equipment authorization list. Anything on such a list would have to be installed before first sale for it to comply with certification regulations for certification modification.

[1retired06]

I would have been a fool to run with the marathon and other OEMs that came on our last three rigs. Particularly on the 2015, absolutely crap tires. Refused to close the deal until all five tires swapped out on dealers dime with tires I chose.

[mlh]

Sailum cost about what your standard China Bomd tires and are cheaper than many LT tires. They are proven, give no trouble. I can’t figure why anyone would not buy them. If you like to gamble with out a pay off get the standard ST tires. That may cost you thousands but it’s your camper and your vacation.
Lynwood

[CalandLinda]

Originally Posted by 1retired06

I would have been a fool to run with the marathon and other OEMs that came on our last three rigs. Particularly on the 2015, absolutely crap tires. Refused to close the deal until all five tires swapped out on dealers dime with tires I chose.

Did the dealer have the trailer's federal certification label changed to reflect the new tire size? They could only do that if authorized by Keystone. If they did not change the certification label they sold you a vehicle with a fraudulent federal certification label.


The FMVSS standard clearly states the tires on the trailer MUST be the same size as those depicted on the certification label at the time of first sale.


A tire size ST235/80R16 LRE is the same size as the LRG. Load ranges are not part of the tire size. On the other side, a LT235/85R16 LRG (RST) being a trailer tire and with more load capacity than the LRE would still require a new certification label because it's a different size and uses a different load inflation chart. The dealer could only change the certification label for a vehicle manufacturer authorized option.

[BuilderBob]

Do we need to get out the pop corn

[mhs4771]

Arm Chair Lawyer??

My understanding on tires is that you can go to a better higher rated tires, but not a lesser tire. A good tire shop should not install tires with a lesser rating than on the RV label, but they can install tires that exceed said ratings.
That's what I have done, went from "E" China Bombs to "G" GY 614s, next unit I went from the OEM "Gs" to "H" GY 114s and I haven't been arrested yet.

[mazboy]

Amazing how there still is discussion on tires for 'our' big trailers.


The answer was answered awhile ago. 'G' rated or on the new trailers even a 'H' rated trailer tires. Seems like it is Goodyear or Saliun.

[CalandLinda]

Originally Posted by mhs4771

Arm Chair Lawyer??

My understanding on tires is that you can go to a better higher rated tires, but not a lesser tire. A good tire shop should not install tires with a lesser rating than on the RV label, but they can install tires that exceed said ratings.
That's what I have done, went from "E" China Bombs to "G" GY 614s, next unit I went from the OEM "Gs" to "H" GY 114s and I haven't been arrested yet.

Kudos to you for your tire upgrade selections. They are both trailer tires.

We, that tow RV trailers, do not have the full support of the RV manufacturing community when it comes to tire selections and replacements. Unlike the automotive industry we do not have listings of tire brands, designs, sizes – including plus sizes – preapproved by RV builders. The common term used in almost all RV trailer owner’s manuals – in this instance I’m using Keystone’s - is, “To maintain tire safety, purchase new tires that are the same size as the vehicle’s original tires or another size recommended by the manufacturer.” Without the trailer manufacturer’s recommendation we are all out on a limb when it comes to any repairs connected to tire applications.

As another has pointed out, why the continued dialog about tires. Changes in size, design and the numerous advancements in tire technology warrants continued attention. It’s not uncommon anymore to find RV trailers with 8000# axles. The off shore trailer tire manufacturers are head and shoulders above all others in providing the necessary sizes and load capacities for all trailer sizes.

There are good and bad reps on tires from over there, somewhere. When GY developed the steel cased RST tires they were highly touted and better satisfied the needs of the 7000# axles. The off shore tire builders saw the success and mimicked the GY tire, soon they converted it to an ST design and became one of the most popular ST tire manufacturers from over there (Sailun). The band wagon started to get very large and now more than a dozen ST manufacturers build at least two sizes of the very same steel cased tire with various brand names, Carlisle comes to mind. Now there is a new size on the market. An all steel ST225/75R15 LRF. Currently made over there but soon to be made in NC.

RVIA made an astonishing recommendation that will effect the Original Equipment tires on RVs for years, or until NHTSA gets off their duff and makes it official. About 95% of all RV trailer manufacturers belong to RVIA. Their recommendation is for all RV OE tire fitments to have a minimum of 10% in load capacity reserves above vehicle certified GAWRs. They also recommended that RV trailer manufacturers suspend the use of bias ply tires on all wheels larger than 14”.

A final note. Tire industry standards require replacements to be of the same size as the OE tires, or larger, and they MUST have a load capacity equal to the OE tires or greater than, via inflation. That statement is like stepping stones, you must use all of them to get to the top. (it needs more context).

NOTE: A tire sized ST225/75R15 LRD is the same size as ST225/75R15 LRE. The load range is not part of a tire’s designated size. Both load ranges use the same load inflation chart and carry the same load at 65 PSI. The LRE has the advantage of having the capability of providing more load capacity when inflated to something from 65 PSI to 80 PSI.

[Pocketlake1]

Facinatng. I started this thread and thought the the word "tire" would generate a lot of passion and also very informative replies which it has. I have learned a lot from this string, particularly about the LRE, which is useful for future tire purchases. I stayed with the ST tires and don't believe I have been lucky, rather prudent, with how I have managed the tires while traveling. the sticker on my rig says 80psi and I run 75. Served me well, along with keeping my highway speed down. Don't want to have to change rims, etc to go to Gs and Hs. Still think it would be prudent to eventually go to a LT that fits my rims and axles, and has a lot of spec buffer built in since they are designed to carry people in trucks, and I think probably safer, and will fit on my rig. I appreciate all the comments and insight since I still believe tires are the most critical item on the rig.

[Texan]

The side wall is stronger on a ST tire than on a LT tire. With the side pressure on sides of tires especially when making sharp turns forward or backward it is important to keep ST tires on rv's. Just because people don't have problems with LT tires on rv's doesn't mean it's better. Most tire experts recommend maximum tire inflation on rv's so as the tires will run cooler. The only advantage to less than maximum pressure is a little better ride but not a good trade off for running cooler. Under inflation is the no. 1 problem with tires and very important to have tire monitoring system on all rv tires.

[mlh]

What hasn’t been discussed here is the LT tires have a higher built on reserve than the standard ST tires. They are rated to carry the same weight but since LT tires carry people the safety factor is higher. If you weight the two you will find the LT are heavier than standard ST tires. All that extra weight gives that extra reserve.
If you do a search here you will find this has all been discussed many times over the years. People think if they run some magic PSI and some magic speed their standard ST tires will serve them well only to have a blowout that does thousands of dollars damage to their camper, but it’s your camper.
Lynwood

[DanandBrenda]

Here is a good place to get tire info. http://www.rvtiresafety.net/

[CalandLinda]

Originally Posted by mlh

What hasn’t been discussed here is the LT tires have a higher built on reserve than the standard ST tires. If it's not documented it's not usable. Can you show valid documentation? They are rated to carry the same weight but since LT tires carry people the safety factor is higher. All DOT certified highway tires can carry people. If you weight the two you will find the LT are heavier than standard ST tires. Not applicable, different construction and almost always deeper treads on all LT tires. All that extra weight gives that extra reserve. Extra reserves, as you call it can only be provided in the tire's carcass construction. Add ons such as taller, more dense treads or the insertion of sidewall scuff guard materials adds weight, that weight does not add to a tire's strength/load capacity.
If you do a search here you will find this has all been discussed many times over the years. People think if they run some magic PSI and some magic speed their standard ST tires will serve them well only to have a blowout that does thousands of dollars damage to their camper, but it’s your camper.
Lynwood

All tires have usability parameters. Passenger tires even have quality grading. The difference in perception about available load capacities can be found in the regulations used for vehicle fitments. Automotive tires get load capacity reserves. Trailer tire fitments are not required to provide those type of reserves.


LT & ST tires do not carry the same weight, example, LT235/85R16 LRE has a maximum load capacity of 3042# at PSI. The ST235/85R16 LRE has a maximum load capacity of 3640# at 80 PSI. Casing construction materials are larger in the ST tires.

[GA Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by CalandLinda

All tires have usability parameters. Passenger tires even have quality grading. The difference in perception about available load capacities can be found in the regulations used for vehicle fitments. Automotive tires get load capacity reserves. Trailer tire fitments are not required to provide those type of reserves.


LT & ST tires do not carry the same weight, example, LT235/85R16 LRE has a maximum load capacity of 3042# at PSI. The ST235/85R16 LRE has a maximum load capacity of 3640# at 80 PSI. Casing construction materials are larger in the ST tires.

So a manufacture can misspec a tire and be alright. Like the Goodyear G159 on a motorhome. Because they write the vehicle fitments. But I can’t change from a poly fabric casing construction, to an all steel casing construction. One that has a load rating greater than 50% of the axle it’s fitted to, plus a reserve and all at higher speed?
And textile 101, many small cords in a bundle are stronger than the same size bundle of larger cords.