California Towing License - Montana Owners Club

brenkco · 03-14-2008, 05:22 AM

This may have already been discussed but I thought I would share our experience at DMV in hopes of saving others some time. California has an obscure law requiring a "Recreational Trailer Endorsement" for those towing a 5th wheel between 10,000 and 15,000 GVWR. (This does not apply to out of state traveling through California.)

We were warned prior to going to the DMV that they rarely do this exam so we were prepared to be patient....and we needed it. Just for reference in case anyone needs to do this, here is what you need:
It's called a "Recreational Trailer Endorsement" to a class C license. Tell them you need a "restriction 41" and a supervisor will know what that is to endorse your license.

There is no fee and no behind the wheel test however there is a 20 question test that permits up to 3 wrong answers.

We came armed with the book and instructions & it took about an hour for them to figure it out. Apparently, the only time they said they have done it is after someone has gotten a ticket. They were very nice but like anything, when they have no experience it takes time. Knowing that you need a 'restriction 41 to your class C license' is the ticket to speed things up.

The handbook that has the info for the test is at the DMV website, http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl648/dl648.pdf.

BTW, the dealer had never heard of this.....might discourage sales perhaps????????

racerjoe · 03-14-2008, 05:32 AM

SHARE YOUR WIFE ????!!! DOES SHE KNOW :-)

Thats better....

brenkco · 03-14-2008, 05:36 AM

racerjoe,
Cleaned it up before DW read it.............!

HamRad · 03-14-2008, 06:06 AM

Ken,

We had read about his situation and decided to get the endorsement just to be legal. I did not know to ask for "restriction 41" and it took them over two hours to find it and make a copy of the test and then administer the test. The test is a piece of cake. Just basic truck and trailer info.

Got my updated license a few weeks later and all was well! Well that is until it was time for renewal. There are health forms that one fills out to get the renewal. Well I take a lot of pain medication. Some fairly potent stuff. And I have very mild diabetes. Between the pain meds and the diabetes there must have been some major red flags thrown up!

After much discussion and letter exchange I received a notice that my license would be suspended. I contacted them and made arrangements to be interviewed. It was very formal and appeared to be a very legal way to revoke my DL. At the first interview I must have done OK since they immediately scheduled a driving test for me. Took the test and it, too, was a piece of cake. Aced it too. Within a couple of weeks I had the license in hand and all has been well since.

However this year I'll have to renew again and am worried the same process will be in place! What a hassle. And all this just to be legal! And I dare say that 95% of folks who are required to obtain the endorsement don't even know about it let alone actually secure it!

If I had to do it over knowing what I now know I'm not so sure I'd even go to the trouble. Something to think about.

But to be absolutely legal one should get any and all necesary licenses and endorsements.

By the way there is a fee if you are within 6 months of license renewal. It is the regular fee.

Happy traveling out there.

Dennis

brenkco · 03-14-2008, 06:20 AM

Dennis,
You're right about the fee, my license was just about to renew so I had to pay for the renewal, DW didn't as hers was years away.

The first question on my test was about the heath questionnaire. I had ignored when I studied the book since page 11 specifically states for the Recreational Trailer Endorsement: "You are NOT required to submit a Health Questionnaire". Check it out.....

BTW, I missed the answer since there was no answer for "not needed". Even the ones that make up the tests don't read their own material!!!

I wonder if the health questionnaire was just SOP. A few years ago, my Mom was in an accident.. with no hearing, no warning, she got a notice of license revocation in the mail. This was her only blemish on her record. I took her in for a hearing and then a behind the wheel test...a huge hassle. I had no idea the DMV had such power.

It makes you wonder when you are simply trying to do the right thing!

HamRad · 03-14-2008, 07:13 AM

Ken,

Like you I thought the health questionnaire was not required. As a matter of fact that is what I indicated when I first received it. I pointed out to them that I had just the endorsement 41 and not a non-commerical class A. That is when It started getting ugly!

I had NOTHING on my driving record. Not even parking tickets! It simply is a general health questionnaire AND is required. If you have no medical issues then I suspect there would be no problem with getting the renewal.

Power! You bet they have it! And they do not hesitate to let you know about it. Everyone I dealt with was very nice and competent. I just hope I don't have to go through the same thing again. I'm getting to old for this kind of hassle. At the rate I'm going I will probably have to give up driving within 10 years anyway. I'm currently 65.

In spite of all the troubles I'm glad I've got the endorsement. I'm also glad to know that the DMV does actually watch who is driving. I just didn't like the idea that the only reason they knew about my situation until I told them!

Oh, well.

Dennis

stiles watson · 03-14-2008, 09:26 AM

Take up residence in a state that doesn't meddle.

Larry · 03-15-2008, 01:41 AM

So, what is required if your 5'er is rated at 15,000 lbs or more?

brenkco · 03-15-2008, 04:44 AM

Larry,
A non-commercial class A license. If you want to PM me with your email address, I will email you the CA dmv handbook in PDF format.

Ken

sreigle · 03-15-2008, 02:11 PM

Brenko, you mentioned the 15,000 GVWR. So I would take it that if the trailer is RATED at 15,000 or more GVW then it's subject to the Class A license for CA residents? That would include many of the new Montanas, wouldn't it, since the GVWR on several went over 15,000 when they went to the 7000 lb. axles? I know the 3400RL went over 15,000 GVWR. Ours has 6000 lb axles and is not rated over 15,000.

brenkco · 03-16-2008, 04:36 AM

Steve,
You're right!!
Ken

HamRad · 04-23-2008, 04:12 AM

Just a note to update:

While on our outing to the Spring MOC National in Tucson I got to meet one of California's finest. A nice young CHP officer pulled me over just outside Vidal Junction on hwy 62. Thankfully I didn't get a ticket. He just wanted to make sure I knew what the rules were. I had crossed a double yellow line at a RR crossing. A truck had stopped in front of me and seemed to hesitate after he had stopped. I thought he meant for me to pass him since he stayed stopped longer than he should have. Still I was in the wrong and should not have pulled around him.

The officer did ask to see my license and wrote down some info in a small notebook. I'm sure he checked for any holds or wants as soon as he got back to his patrol car. Given our location it was not as if I could run and hide! Any of you who have ever taken this road know what I'm referring to.

After I was pulling away I was sure glad I had the endorsement. Not that he even looked at that but if he had and I had not had it he could have had me drop the trailer right there until such time as I secured the proper license. If you look in the dictionary you will find that this location is the definition of "desolate and no where"!

But all was well and we were on our way in just a few short minutes.

Dennis

TLightning · 04-23-2008, 08:20 AM

Here is the site to the CHP laws for RVers:

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/recvehicles.html

richfaa · 04-23-2008, 11:24 AM

Glad we live in Ohio were none of that stuff is required although I do hold a "real" CDL license.

BillE · 04-25-2008, 08:24 AM

Just for fun, I looked at the various California sites. Talk about ambiguous. There is both a "non-commercial permit" and a "non-commercial license." The permit is a 'quickie' whereas the license reads like a full length CDL test. Also, the permit requires a license holder (of the same rating) to be there with the driver.

But, the endorsement is required for a travel trailer weighing more than 10,000 pounds GVWR OR a 5th wheel weighing more than 15,000 pounds GVWR. Neither 'for hire'.

Here's the site: www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm

Hope this may be of help.

Bill

HamRad · 04-25-2008, 09:42 AM

BillE,

Just a small but vital correction. You must have the RV Endorsement if you have Class C license and your 5th wheel weighs over 10,000 but less than 15,001 pounds.

As with many things governmental the rules can be a bit confusing.

HamRad

BillE · 04-26-2008, 02:32 AM

HamRad,

Thanx. I knew there had to be more to it.

Bill

D and M On The Road · 04-26-2008, 09:09 AM

We've known about this requirement for a few years now. After trying to check on it and finding only one person at DMV who knew "a little bit" about it and not finding anyone at CHP who knew about it, we gave up and decided not to get the endorsement.

Here's the link to the actual DMV handbook called, "Recreational Vehicles and Trailers Handbook"

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl648/dl648toc.htm

.... and an actual cut'n paste of one of the sections in the book:

Recreational Trailer Endorsement
A driver must have a fifth-wheel recreational trailer endorsement added to his/her Class C driver license to pull a fifth-wheel recreational trailer over 10,000 lbs., but not over 15,000 lbs. GVWR, which is not used for hire. This endorsement is not required if the driver has a Class A or Noncommercial Class A driver license.
• There is no fee unless your license expires within six months.
• You will take a law test for a noncommercial Class A license based on the information contained in this booklet. You must also pass the Class C law test unless you qualified for a Class C license within the past twelve months.
• You are not required to submit a Health Questionnaire.
• You are not required to take a driving test to add a Recreational Trailer endorsement to your current license.
• No other tests are required.

If we decide to get the endorsement down the road, we'll certainly take a complete DMV Recreational Vehicles and Trailers Handbook with us to show DMV what is required of them and of us.

Here's a phone number you can ask to have any DMV handbook mailed to you, but you need to know the official name of the publication: (800) 777-0133 between the hours of 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. Pacific Time.

Want some more California DMV laws

Here's the complete two new Cell Phone laws that are going into effect July 1, 2008:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/cellularphonelaws/index.htm

The basic difference in the two new laws is:

The first law prohibits all drivers from using a handheld wireless telephone while operating a motor vehicle. Motorists 18 and over may use a "hands-free device."

The second law: Drivers under the age of 18 may NOT use a wireless telephone or hands-free device while operating a motor vehicle.

Margee.

skypilot · 04-26-2008, 11:01 AM

Doug & Margee: Not sure if CA the first with those cell phone rules but I, for one, would be happy to see Kansas place the same in effect. It is a scary thing to drive around town and have the person next to you texting with both hands while driving down the road using their legs / knees to steer. Is a very common sight here and the kids (college and younger) think it is a natural thing to do!! Scary!!!!

(Wife says I'm starting to act / write my age and not my IQ -- and I'm not that old yet (mid-50s if anybody really cares!! -- act like I'm 13 though -- never want to grow up/old if I can help it -- that is one BIG reason why I have a 5th wheel -- to enjoy life!!). Oh but I ramble again - sorry.........

D and M On The Road · 04-26-2008, 11:08 AM

Doug and I are both highly in favor of the new upcoming cell phone laws, especially the one for under 18 years of age.

I already use a blue-tooth ear piece when driving, it took a bit of getting used to, but I absolutely love it. I am still trying to get my phone to accurately identify names when I use the "voice command" feature (so it dials for me). It's kinda like training a puppy....

I too have the "age" thing going on. My favorite quote is from the movie "Auntie Mame" where Rosaland Russell says, "Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death".

Margee.

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