Wireless Internet - Montana Owners Club

Kathi · 07-28-2005, 10:34 AM

While in Montana, there was a little coffee shop around the corner from where we were staying. They offered free wireless internet. The first morning we were in Montana my daughter took us to have breakfast at that coffee shop. They had a computer there and allowed you 20 minutes to do your business etc. Well they closed at 3pm everyday. We would get up early and be gone all day long doing sight seeing etc. By the time we got home they were closed. Welllllll, it dawned on me that if they didn't turn off their wireless, I could just go and sit in their parking lot as close to the building as I could get and go online.
Well it worked. So I would go every afternoon to the coffee shop and sign on and do my business. Now I know that whenever I need my internet, the only thing I need to do is find somewhere that they offer it free. If they are closed I can try to sign on anyway.

Montana_1424 · 07-28-2005, 10:47 AM

Here is another trick, I was just at Six Flags in ROchester NY, no internet or dial up, but I had to do some business. I drove to the nearest town, about 2 miles down the road, and turned on my laptop. It quickly found 3 or 4 wireless networks, and I simply connected to one that was not secured, pulled off on the side of the road and did my business. They are all over, and believe it or not, most people leave them wide open with no security.
Happy Hunting

Countryfolks · 07-28-2005, 11:01 AM

Don't do that. Its illegal. You can be prosecuted for connecting to an AP without the owners permission. It's called "theft of services". It may be wise to get the permission of the owner of places that offer the service free if you are going to use the service after hours.

Skip

FredG · 07-28-2005, 11:35 AM

I'll second that! It's called "WarDriving" and there has been a couple of cases where people were charged with unauthorized use of a computer network. Depending on the state you are in at the time, that crime ranges from a misdemeanor to a class B felony.

It's not worth the risk, just look for public hotspots, they're popping up all over the place.

Fred

Jeff Heiser · 07-28-2005, 11:40 AM

They just found a guy guilty in Florida and sentenced to 5 years. Believe it or not it is a Federal crime to hijack a network that you are not authorized to be on. Just because the owner is foolish enough to leave his wireless access point unprotected doesnt excuse the act. Not good if you get caught.

God Bless America
Jeff Heiser
Merritt Island Florida

Countryfolks · 07-28-2005, 01:47 PM

Connecting to an Access Point [AP] without permission is called theft of service, not wardriving. Wardriving is a hobby and IS NOT illegal, Connecting to an AP without permission of the owner is illegal. Wardrivers DO NOT connect to unprotected AP's, they log the location of sites that are transmitting a 2.4 Ghz [Wifi] radio signal, which ALL AP's do by design. They are only interested in the total number of sites found. The primary program used for this hobby CANNOT, by design, connect to an AP, although Windows WILL.

Skip

richfaa · 07-28-2005, 02:57 PM

I don't think you can hijack a open (unsecured network)the fact that the owner operates it Open (unsecured) is telling the world that everyone is welcome .Now if it was secured the owner is saying you need my permission to enter and you hacked in to the network that is a different story.That is called hacking and it is against the law.Most, if not all secured access points require a password and/or payment to enter. Example, it is illegal to tap into the cable TV because you are not paying for the service(stealing)however you can pick up the same local stations via the TV antenna(unsecured airwaves) I will connect to any unsecured access point and take my chances with the WIFI police.

Montana_1424 · 07-28-2005, 05:32 PM

Actually, connecting to a network that is not secured is not illegal. It is considered private when it is secured. The reason for this is becasue it is imposible (in theory) to stop a WIfI card from searching, and possibly connecting to open networks. I only know this becasue network security is one of my specialties with my Computer Consulting business. Hijacking a netowkr, as stated, is totally different, and if you look deeper into some of the other cases, you will see that the netowkrs which were used, were secured netowkrs that needed to be hacked.
Just some food for thought. I would not do it if it were illegal.
I try as much as possible to use public networks, but sometimes I am in a pinch, I dont make a habit of it, but it is not illegal.

jrgwdenner · 07-28-2005, 06:12 PM

Thank you, Rich and Ed, for clearing up this subject with some sensible thoughts. We have used unsecured networks on our trip and even were told by one couple that they leave their line open so that others can use it. We do sometimes connect unintentionally as WiFi networks are everywhere. I'd hate to think that we were connected illegally every time we drive around.

Countryfolks · 07-28-2005, 06:16 PM

The guy in FL was arrested and convicted of connecting to an unsecured network without permission. Connecting to ANY network that is not yours, without permission, is illegal [Federal and state]. The radio waves are "public" but the AP equipment and associated bandwidth the AP owner pays for is PRIVATE, secured or unsecured. An unsecured AP is usually the result of the owner not being educated about wifi and security, not an offer for anyone to use his property/service.

Judy; That is caused by Windows Zero Configuration [WZC] service. See a post the last week or so by Steve R on how to prevent it from automatically connecting to the strongest signal. That one couple gaue you permission then to use their AP.

Skip

At the top it includes unauthorized access.

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/lis/cip/hacklaw.htm

Parrothead · 07-28-2005, 06:19 PM

I agree with Rich and Ed. On the wireless networks that are charging, you need a password. That proves you paid. If no password is needed, then it is open and is not illegal. I think we are confusing hijacking with logging onto a free WiFi. Just my thoughts. Kathi only accessed the free WiFi outside of the business hours. This won't always work if the server isn't on.
Happy trails....................

Countryfolks · 07-28-2005, 06:25 PM

Don't confuse hacking with unauthorized access, They are two different things although hacking is always accompanied by unauthorized access.

By the way, the term "hacking" is another term that has been demonized. It used to mean modifying a program or piece of equipment. Each of us who has made a modification on the Monty has "hacked" their 5er.

Skip

Montana_1424 · 07-29-2005, 03:43 AM

Most of the laws actually refer to unauthorized use of a computewr, or computer access. Thecnicall, an AP is NOT included in this, this is the case at least here in New York State. I actually had a client that had a problem with his open network, the only way a, sure about this, asdie from reading the law, I had to get a lawyer involved.
Although it was not foind top be illegal here, that might not be the case in other states.
You are correct, however on authorized access to a computer and the data stored on the machine, I believe it is a Class A misdemeanor, and a federal offense.
With wirless netowkrs on the rise, I am sure eventually you will see the laws that protect open networks. They are already there for secured networks.
Not trying to get in a debate here, just sharing the info I know, thats all.

richfaa · 07-29-2005, 04:26 AM

Kozzy45 is more up to date that I am.I was also into network security in my previous(work)life.Most corporate/business wifi networks are or should be protected, if not anyone can gain access to the computer network. My wifi network here at home is protected otherwise anyone driving down the street could see what I am typing right now. I am sure the laws differ State to state and since the concept of WIFI is fairly new I am sure new laws concerning WIFI will come about. Fla must have tough laws. I also used the term "hacking" improperly.In the absolute sense hacking is entering into a secure network/computer and taking/changing something although the term hacking in its general meaning means entering a network for any reason..but it is still illegal for any reason. This is a good subject and if anyone has more information please share it..I am by no means a expert.

Jeff Heiser · 07-29-2005, 05:47 AM

Excuse me but http://www.sptimes.com/2005/07/04/St...a_new_br.shtml and http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp...1&nav=9TahKyMs just for starters. Accessing someone's computer system without their permission, under Indiana law, is trespassing whether wirelessly or physically. In Florida and many other states "unauthorized access to a computer network" is a third-degree felony. I can site the statues if you would like. In the legal world hijacking is considered the same as unauthorized access whether by mistake or intentional. If you get caught you will be prosecuted. One of the primary laws is the federal Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. You can read it for yourself, but the important part (check out paragraph (a)(2)) which covers anyone who "intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access." I also suggest one reading “UNITED STATES CODE ANNOTATED TITLE 18. CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE PART I—CRIMES CHAPTER 119--WIRE AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS INTERCEPTION AND INTERCEPTION OF ORAL COMMUNICATIONS” as another good starting point of reference. UNITED STATES CODE ANNOTATED TITLE 18. CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I--CRIMES CHAPTER 47--FRAUD AND FALSE STATEMENTS,1029. Fraud and related activity in connection with access devices, Subsection (e), Sub para's(1, 8, 10) speak specifically to this topic. The various laws do not make reference as to whether the access point or network you access (wirelessly or not) is secure or not but rather do you have permission to access either. Not being secure or being open does not imply explicit permission to access.

Now you have my 2 cents.

God Bless America
Jeff Heiser
Merritt Island Florida

Parrothead · 07-29-2005, 06:38 AM

Jeff
Great info. I still say if someone has an unsecured wireless network then they are implying no permission is needed to access.
Happy trails................

jrgwdenner · 07-29-2005, 06:50 AM

We have used some unsecure wireless networks on our trip. I have never seen or tried to see what is on their computer. When I'm on their connection, all I do is use my connection through their open network.

Parrothead · 07-29-2005, 06:56 AM

Right Judy. If you were tring to access the server and change something that would not be legal. But using the unsecured wireless network to access your internet connection is not the same as illegal access in my opinion. (When you bring me the file when I'm in jail, I like chocolate cake LOL).
Happy trails.......................

richfaa · 07-29-2005, 07:08 AM

Actually United States Code annotated title 18 answers all questions if read in its entirety and in context.The key phrase may be "with intent to defraud" We were aware of title 18 became familiar with it while still in Government service..however read it and draw your own conclusions or..get a legal opinion..or take your chances with the WIFI police.I would agree and so does title 18 that if you get into a unsecured network and acquire that persons credit card number and his bank account number and his SSN and use it for your own purpose (fraudulent use) you will go to jail.... We do not prowl the roadways looking for free internet service but if we pull into a flying J and do not buy fuel or food we will use their open WIFI if need be.... Good post everyone..a lot to learn..

jrgwdenner · 07-29-2005, 07:45 AM

Even when we're here near Denali the wireless is open. I can use it in the campground but anyone sitting in the parking lot can use it, too. I suspect that the people charged were trying to do something fradulent.

Which reminds me of a question I've had. When someone does join the network, does a window or message pop up to say that someone else is on the network?

You may also like: