What happened to the great customer service? - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

richfaa · 07-19-2008, 03:03 PM

You can google up the Elkhart and Goshen, In Newspapers and keep abreast of the situation in the RV industry.Monaco is the latest victim with 1400 jobs gone. I think service may degrade just a bit.

Bill and Ann · 07-20-2008, 01:12 AM

Steve: If you remember back to the second Fall Rally I was having problems with my Cap decals curling at the edges. Keystone replaced them at the service centre. The entire front cap decals. I was out of warranty for 2 yrs. and they still did it. Seems like something has changed in house.

dsprik · 07-20-2008, 03:48 AM

They may be afraid that the Service Center could get overrun at the Rally by decal servicing. Maybe if one could schedule a trip to the Service Center prior to or a little after the Rally, they might be a little more accommodating.

If I could get this one decal put on, that was sent to me free from Cust Serv, and the other off, for $75-$100, I would be inclined to just get it done on my own. The fact that we are getting such high quotes for the labor is the sticking point for me, and many others I believe.

I know we are kinda talking about two different sub-issues here: 1. those with many of their decals peeling/disintegrating, and 2. A single decal which has began coming off in less than 24 months out of the factory (me and Steve R, et al). Actually, I just realized the date... Two years to the day today is when this Montana rolled off the assembly line.

It is my opinion that the material is defective and should be replaced - parts and labor.

nailbender · 07-20-2008, 04:24 AM

Just curious, for those that have decals pealing, do you wax over or around the decals or use a power wash? I don't know if either of these would be a contributing factor of pealing, but it would be interesting to find out if they are. I like the graphics and don't want to do anything to damage them.

padredw · 07-20-2008, 04:33 AM

Just a limited experience: I always waxed right over the decals on the front cap of our 2955RL, which we had for five years. We were fortunate in that we never had any problem with any of the decals. I only waxed the front cap (maybe the back one time), never the sides which I washed regularly.

dsprik · 07-20-2008, 04:38 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by nailbender

Just curious, for those that have decals pealing, do you wax over or around the decals or use a power wash? I don't know if either of these would be a contributing factor of pealing, but it would be interesting to find out if they are. I like the graphics and don't want to do anything to damage them.

Don, I have never waxed (except for washing with the wax/wash combo stuff) or power washed my 3400. The "Montana" decal is shrinking and peeling BADLY, while the other nose decals still look like the day they came out of the factory... Obviouly not the same material stock...

nailbender · 07-20-2008, 04:59 AM

Maybe the decals should be made of the material that bumper stickers are made of. Those things never come off. Pealing decals is not unique only to the RV industry, most outdoor products that have decals eventually peal. But those products don't cost nearly as much as we pay for our RV's and it should not unreasonable to expect them to last. If decals can't be made to last, then leave them off or use painted graphics.

Trailer Trash 2 · 07-20-2008, 05:28 AM

Thats what I told Keystone that some of the vinal that was used on some of the decals were a different and inferrior quality they shrink,and start to lift at the edges, blown away again.

HamRad · 07-20-2008, 06:05 AM

The decals are made from the same stuff. So my guess is that the problem arises from how they were applied. Apparently how they are actually put on makes a big difference.

But regardless of whether it is what they are made of or how they are applied Keystone should step up and take care of the stuff. Especially if the units are only a couple of years old!

They would be doing themselves a big favor by fixing them vs letting them go down the road looking like crap! That is NOT good advertising.

Dennis

D and M On The Road · 07-20-2008, 07:59 AM

My thought is that if someone's decals are peeling/shrinking and they are within warranty or near it, Keystone should step up to the plate and take care if it.

I'm going to repeat what I put in another category a few months back and suggest that for those of you who are affected by peeling & or shrinking decals, or are just interested in the topic, get yourself a drink of whatever, get cozy in your computer chair and go to the two links I have provided below.

If you read both topics you'll get more of a feel for the decal issue with Keystone and maybe will help you decide a direction to go in, if needed.

Plus, this issue isn't going to go away, it's just getting bigger, so I am keeping it together and don't want the two links slip away into "archives" never to be seen again.

I'm a person who needs to know "why?".

Once I figure that out, it helps me to understand a problem and how to fix it. So being the person I am, I spent many hours researching & talking to people in the industry about why decals peel and/or shrink (and not just on RVs) & I put the results of my research in one of my posts in those links. Hopefully if your Montana is not having a issue yet with decals, that particular post will help you see what you can do to protect and prolong the life of your decals.

And, I urge those of you who have a Montana that is older and has been out of warranty for awhile and want to replace some or all of the decals, to contact Burlington Graphics as soon as possible and get a quote from them on replacements. The sooner you do, the less cost it will be. They are an extremely easy & pleasant company to work with. The name of the gentleman to contact at Burlington along with his email address and phone number is also in one of those two links.

But decals are, well decals..... and according to 99.9% of the experts I communicated with, decals won't last to their expected lifetime if we don't do our part in taking care of them. Even then, decals won't last forever but maybe will last alot longer? *shrug*

Why some of us have decals that are holding up better than others? It's chalked up to the "gene pool lottery". No one really knows why unless the owner is taking care of them. If not, they'll wake up one morning and find peeling/shrinking decals.

Why do bumper stickers seem to last forever and when you try to take them off they won't budge? Because they are usually on the rear of the vehicle and not subject to the bugs, weather and direct wind like front & side decals are.

I know that when we do get a new RV and if it comes with decals, we'll give it as many coats of wax that we can, (especially the front nose cap decals) before we take it out on the road to help protect the decals from damage. If it comes with painted graphics, that will be a whole new issue for me to research and figure out.

Maybe with the National Fall Rally coming up.... we could make up a letter letting Keystone know what we think of their new Customer Service and sign it with everyone who wants to be included and present it to the Keystone factory during the rally. Think that would get their attention?.... *LOL ...... I just thought of a new activity for the Fall National Rally.... picketing the factory.

Seriously though, it's probably time to get a group effort of some sort going regarding Keystone's new direction in Customer Service.

And lastly, this post is not to excuse the problem with decals peeling & shrinking..... it's just to give out the research results I came up with and hopefully it will help some other MOC members in dealing with the issue.

http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=28114

http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=29015

Margee.

richfaa · 07-20-2008, 09:40 AM

We don't know of any new direction do we. We just know that Montana refused to replace out of warranty decals. Why we don't know...but don't think we should be jumping to conclusions.

bigmurf · 07-20-2008, 12:02 PM

Guess I been going backwards too much. The only decals peeling on mind are on the rear cap. BTW I do wax my front cap every couple of months.

richfaa · 07-20-2008, 01:22 PM

For the record... We have never waxed the decals. We have never waxed anything on the camper.We have never done anything special for the decals. We use Awsome and dish soap on a regular basis to wash the camper. We will use a liquid car wash on occasion.

D and M On The Road · 07-20-2008, 02:19 PM

bigmurf... you are too funny!

We've never gone backwards, (well except for backing up in campsites) but our decals are peeling & fading on the rear of the Montana also. Bumper stickers must be made from a different vinyl and with a different adhesive. Unfortunately most of the decals on our 2002 need replacing.

richfaa... we have waxed our Montana but not anywhere near what Burlington Graphics or other makers of decals suggest. Sounds like you are very lucky so far. I found out in my research that the decals only have a street life of 5 to 7 years, if taken care of properly. We didn't do the suggested maintenance and ours gave up before that.

In 2008, Denise, the head of Keystone Customer Service said to me that Keystone will replace graphics of those Montanas that are in warranty or just out of warranty (on a case-by-case basis) but that Keystone won't install them. Back in 2003/2004 we couldn't get Keystone to supply graphics much less install them, for us when our Montana was still in warranty and again when it was just out of warranty. Between the dealer and Keystone, I gave up trying to get help and just dropped the issue.

We've lived with peeling/shrinking/cracking decals for about 5+ years now. We just paid $280 for a whole new set of 2002 graphics for our Montana. Burlington Graphics talked us out of buying a 2008 set of Graphics as they were concerned how the "ghost" effect would look on our Montana and they were right to do that.
We have yet to put them on but need to do it while we still have sunny weather above 55 degrees so they will "bond" or "cure" properly.

Again, it's not known why some Montanas don't have any trouble with their decals, or why some do have trouble almost right away. There's a lot of factors involved. All I can find out about that is sooner or later, we all will.

Margee.

exav8tr · 07-20-2008, 05:03 PM

I bought my truck decals from the guys in Apache Junction. Graphic design for vehicles and signs is all they do, especially RV's. The owners, brothers, said the best way to keep decals looking new is to wash with dish soap and coat with ProtectAll or the 303 stuff (I think that's right). He also said the key was not to let the protectall dry before wiping off, put it on and wipe it off. He also stated the problem with some of the dealers decals is that they sit on the shelf too long. He said they have a shelf life of two years and no more. Please don't shoot the messenger, I am just passing on what this expert said.

simonsrf · 07-21-2008, 04:27 AM

Perhaps, with the current economy, Keystone has decided that customer service is just to expensive.

dsprik · 07-21-2008, 06:42 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by simonsrf

Perhaps, with the current economy, Keystone has decided that customer service is just to expensive.

Maybe, Robbie, but in my business experience, a LACK of customer service has ultimately been WAY to expensive/fatal for a company/organization.

PartyCrashers · 07-21-2008, 05:43 PM

I have been reading this topic with interest.

I do feel that Steve' s decals coming off in just 22 months is a shame.

I do feel that Keystone should work a little more with him on this issue.

At the same time I can understand why Keystone would not take on the labor cost of getting decals replaced. That would be HUGE $'s if they did this for everyone.

But I do feel Keystone should make these graphics available to customers that have a Vin number either make these graphics available super cheap or even free......After all we are a "rolling advertisement"

As most of you are aware....We own an SOB. I just wanted to let the board know that the graphics that are peeling (especially on the front cap) is not just a Montana problem. My SOB board members also have this same discussion.....with the same replys that Steve has gotten.

As a thought has anybody thought of "teaming together" by this I mean have one letter drafted with the concerns of the graphics, then have all those affected endorse it.

Keystone may listen with more open ears if it was a togetherness of people bringing the concern up to their attention in a nice respectful manner.....but of course everyone needs to look at the graphic problem they are having and decide how much they want to get involved.....just a suggestion

For us with this knowledge now....we will do some searching for the future when we decide to up grade.

Hopefully more manufactures will go to the painted on graphics

Steve-, I think you need to keep on Keystone...Don't give in

Margee-
Thanks for sharing all your research information. I know it is time consuming and you taking the time to share with us is appreciated.

I know I will file all your information.
Thanks

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