Late 2006 3400RL has become our 3rd home now

[Dean A Van Peursem]

We purchased our late 2006 3400RL in May of 2006 and have used it heavily for 2 and 1/2 years. Third 3200 mile round trip from Seattle to Phoenix this year. However, it has been a big disappointment. We had way more than our fair share of problems (Major and Minor) with our unit with it being in dealership lots for repairs over 35 days the first two years. However, we haven't had another major problem appear since the black tank cracked and had to be replaced this past summer and the Mission tire failures which occurred just before we came to AZ in November. But the polish is off the apple and we are very disenchanted with the quality of product Keystone allowed out of their factory.

So this weekend we purchased a Park Model with an AZ room here at the RV Resort in Apache Junction for our annual 5 month snowbird journey. Twice as much room as we have in the 3400RL for less money than we paid for the new 3400RL. It wasn't any easy financial decision but our 3400RL is tainted for us. We will pull it back to WA and still probably use it for our sojourns in the summer in the NW US area unless someone happens to want it more than we do and are willing to pay a fair price for it. It has been a big disappointment. We bought it to enjoy not to spend untold hours of tension having things go wrong and dealing with getting repairs done. It really took the fun out of it for us. so now the 3400RL takes Third place behind the stick house and the Park Model. Early on we were thinking of becoming full timers for a period of time. Keystone took that dream away with a shoddy product.
I want to again thank all those MOC members who have been so helpful through all our travails. We would have never survived without the quick, educated and common sense advice we received here. Hopefully, this 3400RL will now allow us to enjoy our less intense travels in the NW.

[richfaa]

Having met you and had long conversations on the subject of quality in the RV industry we completely understand your decision and believe it is a good one on your part. We purchased our 3400 the same month as yours and have also used it heavily. We were aware of the quality in the RV industry before we purchased and expected failures but they exceeded our expectations. Rv's are not designed for the kind of use many of us put them to. Our 3400 has not been a "big" disappointment to us as we expected failures. Except for our black tank failure and hydraulic line failure over the last thre months we have been almost trouble free since our four day stay at the service center in April of 07 where 23 problems were expertly resolved. I am acutally surprised that a person of your backround and experience in product Quality lasted this long... We stil beleive that the Montana is a great bang for the buck . Good luck...

[Delaine and Lindy]

Sorry for your disappointment, and I can understand the problems we have as for living in a RV. But believe me all RV's any make or brand no matter what you pay for them will have problems. We all tend forget a RV isn't like a stick house. Try pulling a stick house down the road at 60 mph. Just remember a Park model will depreciate just like a RV. We also looked at Park Models and have been to the factorys. They can be moved but not very easy. We also didn't like being in one location and you are stuck with what ever neighbor you get. There is also a lot of upkeep on them also. Hope everything works out for you on your decision. And if your happy, thats what counts. GBY...

[exav8tr]

Dean, I can certainly understand your feelings about your 3400. We have an '06 3400 and have ot had near the problems as you have had. Early on we had the Mission Tire problems, replaced them, our wire looms under the slides broke, bought hinges and fixed them myself, shower leak, fixed twice by Keystone Warrany then finally by myself, fan motor on bathroom exhaust fan quit, replaced. I guess the biggest problem was the counter top cracked. At this years Fally Rally I had many nit noy things attended to by Keystone and the countertop replaced. MorRyde placed a screw in our Gray Tank and created a leak, Keystone replaced. A piece of pannelling near kitchen sink was warped and Keystone replaced. Front closet doors were not hung properly and had rubbed the finish off of the side piece. All replaced by Keystone. One light fixture in LR did not match others, Keystone replaced.

None of these seemed like major repairs to me, cept maybe the gray tank and counter top, and Keystone stepped up to the plate and made me a happy camper. Remember, we are full timers and have been since we pulled our rig out of Alaska in May 07. We enjoy our camper tremendously, but realize too, that we may have more repairs along the road. As Rich points out, Many of us use our rigs are used in a manner not truly conducive to "error free ownership". And as Lindy points out, not many of us pull our stick homes down the road at 60 mph, wouldn't that be a test of residential construction.

We also looked at Park Models in Tucson while there, Since they can only be no more than 400 sq ft, I don't understand how yours can be twice as big as the 3400, I guess with the AZ room, that is where the difference comes in. We are still in the travelling and sightseeing mode and will be for quite some time. At the end of our sojourn, if our camper is still livable we might just buy a plot of land somewhere, put in a sewer, water line and elec and build a cover over ours and live out our lives in it, then again maybe not, who knows.

I strongly encourage anyone buying or owning a Montana to plan a trip to the fall rally in Goshen. Call well ahead and make an appointment at the Keystone Service Center for any needed repairs, preferably near the end of the first year, (warranty or not). You will be glad you did...

In any event, we wish you the best of luck with your travels and time in Apache Junction, BTW my youngest son lives in Mesa and we spent time at Meridian RV Park in AJ last year and will do so again this next winter, maybe not Meridian though.

[wswebster]

Sorry you don't "love" your Montana 3400 anymore. We are still in love with ours. She has over 20,000 miles on her and has not spent 1 night at any dealer for any major problem. We have had so many great moments with her that we are now planning anyother trip, this time to Florida. As I've said before not 1 screw loose or anything else to report about. I'm knocking on wood. I'm only saying this so that if anyone is reading this and is concerned about purchasing a Montana 5th wheel, we still love our trouble free unit.

[rames14]

Dean -
Sorry to hear of your problems. We bought a TT (SOB) the year before the Montana. Our first big trip with it, the cleats holding the water tank under the bed broke and drained 40 gallons of water inside the trailer. Unfortunately, it was the fall and cold so it couldn't be aired out. Our dealer stripped out the pad, carpet, everythig and made it like new. We bought our Montana from the same dealer. I have found the big differnce in satisfaction for many MOC members is how their dealer handles the issues. We have had a good dealer and they have taken care of our few minor issues very well. Best of luck with the new Park Model. After five years in our 3400, we are looking at a Big Sky.

[Dean A Van Peursem]

Delaine and Lindy,

I just cannot resist responding to a couple of the comments. Both hit real hot buttons for me. One is "that all RV's have problems" and therefore accept it and live with it. And the other is: Pulling a stick house down the road and expect to have problems. I'd like to use the following analogy on the first. Your kids say they are using drugs because many of the other kids in school are also and therefore it is OK. Think about that a bit. On the second, we didn't buy a stick house to pull down the road. We bought a RV(5th wheel) that is on wheels and is supposed to be designed and manufactured to handle that. We get what we expect and what we hold the manufacturers to. If our expectations from Montana are no better than the rest and accept multiple low quality issues then Montana will meet those expectations and continue to manufacture to low quality standards. We will get nothing more than what we accept. And BTW, we do expect problems with the Park Model because it is 14 years old. But I'd bet something major won't fail every time we use it like it did on our late 2006 Montana 3400RL. At least we don't have to worry about the tires! :-)

[Delaine and Lindy]

Dean A Van Peursem, I realize you have had a bad experience, from the post I have read from you, and I in no way wanted to upset you, thats just my experience and my opinion. I also agree the RV industry could and should do a better job. However it has gotten better, and if we the buyer keeps after them it will get better. I have owed 5 5th wheels and haven't had tire problem, and yes many have? I'm looking out my window now and looking at most park models, they call this a RV park but thats not true its a Park Model park. I think this area has to be the Park model capital of the world, I have never seen so many. When the Park models are moved out due to age I guess, then the site becomes a RV site. There is almost 300 sites here and there are many park models for sale, actually to many to count. I don't know why the change from park model to RV sites. I have said many times it takes a certain type person to live in a RV, its not for everyone. And if you aren't able to do small repairs your in trouble if you own a RV or have lots of money. Anyway I hope you have many good years with you Park Model. I also hope you have a Texas room or Florida room so you will have the extra room. GBY....

[richfaa]

There you go again Dean. Who wants to hear reality when excuses and make no sense analogies sound so much better.I always liked the one about pulling your stick house down the road.It ranks right up there with...Been doing it for years and never had a problem...and..your truck will "pull" it just fine..All manfactured products have problems Some of us are aware that good quality control and good manufacturing processes will greatly reduce those problems.Some of us are also aware that the RV industry, not just Keystone/ Montana is lacking(to put it mildly) in both those areas. I have no idea why we do not hold the RV industry to the same standards we hold other manufactureres to. I might note that we have run a 05 and a 08 Ford truck down the same roads as the 06 3400 and some much worse,for over 45,000 miles with a single problem(bad DPF) while the 06 3400 has racked up over 50 problems..large and small.What's the analogie for that???

This Rv has meet our expectations as our expectations were not all that high. We expected problems and we got them.No surprises here.

[Dean A Van Peursem]

To follow up. About 50% of the repairs on our 3400RL that were needed I have done myself. Usually only those that were more of a hassle to take to the Dealer or needed to be fixed immediately such as the multiple water leaks we have had, sewer pipe leaks, wiring failures, cabinet doors falling off in transit, front door screws falling out, binding doors, dismounting failed ties and mounting replacements, lights falling out, etc, etc. Many of the failures we have had that needed dealer repairs would not be classified as "Small". An example: replacement of the black tank or complete redo of the roof on the super slide. I don't think I could be described as one who isn't capable of doing their own repairs and therefore it acnnot be rationlized as being in the wrong type of living conditions. My issue is the quantity required and what was needed to be done on a new unit. We just got fed up with the constant need for repairs hat are not considered normal maintenance. I've owned homes for over 40 years and know what normal maintenance is and have done 95% of it myself during those years. We are currently in a RV resort that is converting to a Park Model park. Each year there are less RV spaces and more Park Models. We had planned to be happy in a RV but due to all the problems we have had with our Montana, that plan has failed. We are that certain type of person who could live (FULL TIME) in an RV but Montana's failure to build a decent unit has has driven us out. And yes, we have a large Arizona room attached to the Park Model so counting the space in the AZ room and park model we have significantly more room than we do in the 3400RL. Plus covered parking, a fully paved patio, 8' x 10' storage shed and fully landscaped lot. It can not be rationalized that we were the wrong people for an RV, much as your message implies and used as an excuse to protect Montana. That could not be further from the truth. The issue is that Montana built such a poor quality unit that it drove us out. What does it take to admit that our particular Montana 3400RL was not built to the quality standards that any rational RV buyer would expect? Too many other Montana owners have also experienced similar issues. Almost all, if not all, problems we have had have been written about by others on the Forum. Although, they may not all have had them all occur in one unit like we have. The Montana 3400RL is the problem, not us. Accept it.

[ols1932]

What percentage of the Montanas out there are having major problems? We've had our share of problems but that doesn't discourage us from believing that we still have a good product. I'm always sorry to hear of the disappointments that people have with their rigs. Our satisfaction goes right back to our dealer who took wonderful care of us as well as Keystone.

Orv

[richfaa]

This is the list presented to the service center April of 07 after our melt down and after many failures during our winter in Arizona and after we had corrected many problems on our own. Example many striped cabinet screws, Bathroom door knob falling apart, Light over the PC table falling out, tank monitor falling off the wall, only one screw was screwed into anything.Sliding rear closet doors fell off in transit due to the top screws in the track falling out.We do not single out the Montana 3400 or Keystone.We do point a huge finger at the RV industry. These things could have happend with any brand/ You know I agree 100% with you on the quality issue. We want 3 more years out of this 3400 before we go the same route as you. We expect more failures..

1) Wiring from melt down, Details attached
2) Running lights on top of front cap do not work as a result of the rewire
3) A Large amount of Hydraulic fluid leaked into the underbelly as a result of the meltdown and has soaked everything in that area.
4) Red “fuse blown” lights do not work when fuse is defective in the Iota panel
5) Stripped screws in the Iota fuse panel, it is loose on the wall
6) Groove in black material under the bedroom slide. The material is also pulling loose from the slide.
7) There are wrinkles in the roof first reported at the Goshen Rally in Sept06
8) Slides will pause/stop when moving in or out
9) There is a waste smell in the camper,
10) There is a small leak in the waste pipe in the right front compartment at the first joint
11) There is interference on chan 2, 3 and 4 when on the TV antenna. Any city any place
12) Kink in hose under the sink restricts water flow, poor design, also the faucet continually comes loose.
13) Galley tank gauge reads 2/3 full all the time
14) Right side of main awning will not lock down, does not line up properly
15) Top wood strip at top of step that door slides on is about to fall off
16) Flashing around main slide is pulling away from the wall(right side)
17) Emergency exit window in bedroom has a big air leak, right side
18) Main slide appears to sag, seal does not fit correctly
19) Furnace,A/C goes into ‘Off”” Mode for no reason, Does not loose power, just goes off. Reset and normal.
20) Caulking on the bottom of the front hatch missed its mark and you can push the panel away from the camper
21) Skirt on Kitchen slide , screws stripped and fell ou.t March 14th
22) Hot water heater will not light on. Gas Worked till March 16th,07
23) Clothing rod ripped out of the wall on the right side. March 17th
24) A/C breakers are tripping with increased frequency all over the camper with no increased load. Kitchen, living room are the worst.
25) Fantastic fan sticks
26) Seal around side compartment falling off.



All and more corrected by the service center.

[Delaine and Lindy]

Now that is the most issues I have ever seen on a 5th wheel. We have owned 5 and none ever had that many problems. The Everest 343L had one issue in over 22,000 miles and the Cambridge had a shower water leak and two wheels cracked of course we went to the service center only, never to the dealership. We had two issues with the Landmark, and none with the 5er we have now. Oh well some do and some have less but they all have problems, its just a fact of owning a RV. Just Grin and bare it, everyday is a holiday. If your not happy get over it and sell what you don't like. GBY....

[Dean A Van Peursem]

The list we would present here would include many of the items that Richfaa has provided and many, many more. Such as tires, three different major water leaks, failure in DC wiring, all plastic wiring carriers under the slide-outs, sewer piping leaks, Fantastic Vent fan failures, Apollo 1/2 time oven failure and replacement and it failed again after replacement this time the carousel drive, blown fuses that are not documented anywhere in the supplied manuals, circuit breaker failure for the slides, Decals falling off, refrigerator drain hose totally disintegrating in a year. on and on, etc, etc. . About the only failures we haven't had is a hydraulic line problem or a fire. Something must have been going on or not going on at the Montana factory during the time Richfaa's and our 3400RL's were made since they are less than a month apart. I'm not going to try to resurrect the whole laundry list of problems we have had to deal with. I've tried my best to forget most of them. I'm reminded of what the Chairman of the Board at Xerox said a year after Xerox purchased a computer company in So Ca for $980 Million and found out it wasn't anything like they expected. They wrote the whole company off several years later. I was in the audience when he made this statement to the management team at the computer company and I quote verbatim: "We were a stranger to the computer business and you took us in!" I'll revise that statement to fit our experience with the Montana 3400RL. "We were a stranger to Keystone/Montana and they took us in." Any ethical company would have replaced our unit with a new one a long time ago. I did request it. We have Lemon laws in WA but not for 5th wheels. I'm happy for those of you who haven't had nearly as many problems as we have had. It is nearly impossible for us to believe anyone who states they have had no problems with their units. And I think we would have tolerated the harangue if the problems just would have eventually quit or had become minor annoyances. Normal maintenance/repairs is and was expected. But after 2 1/2 years of continual problems one has to call a spade a spade. And I come from the school that negative feedback is more important, useful and valuable than positive feedback. If they are properly followed up on and corrected. The most frustrating thing about this is I have not heard one iota of feedback from Keystone that they have taken any form of corrective action to prevent these kinds of failures in the future. That is almost criminal, just as is the lack of recall on the Mission tires or the incorrect valve stems or cracking plastic wire carriers, etc, etc. "Sum ting is wong" in Goshen! That is and was the final blow. It is beyond my comprehension as to how they get away with it. I'm going to try to not respond any more on this subject. I get all worked up again and am really trying to forget the whole sad affair.

[up2nogood]

I am in total awe , I have had several rv's over the years and cannot come up with even 25% of the problems you and Rich have had, sounds like the 2006 3400RL was a bad year, kind of like the 2003 Ford 6.0 diesel.

I am a little confused with your post, what is is your objective ??? Don't buy Keystone or don't buy a used 2006 ?? Trying to get Keystones ear ?? All Montana 5vers are bad ?? Buy a park model less problems ?? As you can see I have not a clue as to what you are after, I know one thing for certain you will not be a repeat customer, such as myself. I am on my second Montana 5ver first was a 2005 2980RL the second is a 2008 3400RL mission tires and all. No long list of problems, I know its hard to believe, but the truth is the truth. I am not saying I have not had problems, but not anything like what I am hearing from you two.

Very happy with the Montana Fifth Wheel, as many many others are. I am sorry for your problems, there is always some bad ones in everything that is built cars, trucks, computers you name it. You had to be the unfortunate one to get a bad one. Maybe as much as you would like to think Montana Keystone is a bad product you are mistaken . Could there be improvements, yes. Hopefully Keystone is hearing you guys.

[exav8tr]

As my signature states, I have an '06 3400RL also. Perhaps mine was built by a different crew. How would I find out when mine was actually built? Or maybe I don't want to know. So far, we are happy with ours, being our first RV of any kind we did not know what to expect and maybe our expectations are different than others. We expect some problems with things man made, but yours and Riches would certainly test my patience....We did find that the trip to the Keystone service center was well worth the trip.

[Dean A Van Peursem]

up2nogood,

I have no ulterior motives whatsoever other than simply describing our unfortunate and unsatisfactory experiences with our late 2006 3400RL which was purchased new. No different than those who have done so describing their experience as being totally satisfactory. I'm not aware of a rule on this Forum that says that one can only say positive things about their Montana's. If there is such a rule, then this forum wouldn't be nearly as helpful as it currently is. Almost every problem that we have had to deal with has also happened to other owners and those other owners/MOC members have been very kind helping us work toward a solution. This we are eternally thankful for. Some examples: just do a search on Cracked Black Tank repairs ($750 non-warranty repair) or DC wiring failure in the Entertainment Center slide out (Crimped wire insulation on a wire connector which I found and fixed myself) or the undocumented fuse for the front jacks (failed on our first outing) or intermittent failures on the slide out circuit breaker (replaced under warranty). We could not have survived the 2 1/2 years w/o the help we have received here on the MOC Forum. If I have any objective at all it would be to again thank all the MOC members who have helped us over the last 2 1/2 years.

exav8tr,

On our late 2006 3400RL, the date of manufacture is on a stick-on label attached to the left lower front of the RV directly upward and forward of the left LP door. Ours is dated 3/26/2006.

[richfaa]

IMO the failure rate is directly related to how you use your camper. This is our 5th camper. The previous campers were used on weekends and once a year vacation trips. The longest time we ever spent in a camper was a 2 week vacation trip. I can recall bent axles on a coachman camper and a window leak in a Terry TT going back to 1980.We used those campers as "recreational vehicles" their intended use. Our average yearly use was @ 40 to 60 days a year. With help from this forum and a in depth PDI this 3400 rolled out off he dealers lot with Zero defects on May 3rd 2006. We left for Arizona December 15th 2006 and during that time did weekend camping trips and the Fall rally. We had not a single problem.Since we purchased the 3400 we have spent on the average 6 to 8 months of the year living in it covered 20 States and over 25,000 miles.That is not "recreational" use and all of our issues have occured during that time. We have spent more time, did more miles and lived in the camper more than all of our other campers combined in less that 3 years.My call is that our problems are more typical than not for a camper used as we use ours. What we report is a true and factual account of our Rv experience and we hope that it will help others as their experience has helped us. I have said over and over again that this is a industry problem and not specific to Keystone/ Montana. I think every problem reported by Dean and myself has happend to and been reported by folks on this forum. Many have experienced several of those issues.

We do not think we got a "bad" Montana..We think we got a average Montana(RV) and our problems are average for a unit used as we use ours.
The difference is we openly share our experience. My guess is others could come up with lengthly list of problems large and small also.

We are done with this thread and we will continue our great adventure in this 3400.

[oscarj]

Thanks to all who have posted to this topic both positively and negatively. I am big on accountability and feel the internet gives an avenue for accountability to manufacturers that we all need. All of us benefit from honest and open dialogue.

I am new to my fifth wheel having owned it for approximately 9 months. Bought it used as a 2004 3670rl. For me, rving is about making memories and when problems get in the way, I can certainly understand why someone would be unhappy. Luckily I have had fantastic trips in mine having enjoyed weekend getaways to the beach and "Woodstocking" with my three older kids at Bonnaroo last year and enjoying 4 days of fantastic music and fellowship with them and 110,000 people who love music. I am sorry that some have not had a great experience and feel Keystone should make it right. I also feel that any dealer who sells a bad unit should make it right. I would encourage any negative comments to include the dealer where you bought it from and what involvement they have had in fixing problems. On a positive note, I bought my unit at RV Connections in Panama City and couldn't be happier. It was a one owner and the couple had it for 4 years and kept it in immaculate condition. I figured that any kinks would have been worked out. In addition they bought it and traded at the same dealership and traded up. Thanks to all and God Bless!

[Dean A Van Peursem]

oscarj,

Thank YOU!