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Old 08-10-2018, 03:46 PM   #1
Bnrc73
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5er weight.

Been in my 2010 Montana 3400RL for about 3 months now. TV is a 2011 f350 Super Duty SRW 6.7 diesel. Finally hit the scales today. TV full of fuel and about 20 gallons fresh water. Just coming home from a trip. Still loaded. Trailer 11440lbs TV 11320lbs total 22760lbs. Raised the pin box off of the 5th wheel plate. TV 9330lbs Trailer 13440lbs total 22770lbs (don’t know where the extra 10 lbs came from) hooked up the rig sets pretty level. Rear sag hooked up is 3in. Front end raise is 1/8 in. Looks to me like my pin weight is 2490lbs. Pulls awesome. I run no more than 68mph. Is that 3in sag need air bags? 5er has a Mor/Ryde pin box. I would appreciate any opinions on my numbers. Thanks in advance. Rick
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:01 PM   #2
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not sure why all of the numbers, but i think the question is about air bags. get them if you want them.



If you 'feel' like you need them to be level get them, they are just not necessary.



'Air Lift adjustable air springs (also called air bags) fit your existing suspension and help to properly distribute weight to all four tires, giving you a safer and more comfortable ride when towing or hauling a heavy load.'
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:35 PM   #3
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You did not say what tires you are running?
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:44 PM   #4
carl n susan
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Your number are close to the truck's limit but definitely under. What sized tires you are using is irrelevant as long as they are rated sufficiently to carry the load.

I am guessing you aren't carrying much in your 3400 so if you start to carry more, some portion will carry over onto the pin and may push you beyond the max truck GVW.
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Old 08-10-2018, 06:30 PM   #5
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IMHO the 3" sag is not really a worry. I think what the air bags do is when the TV hits a good bump, Air bags help keep it from bottoming out and throwing all the geometry off. To me it is just insurance.
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:23 AM   #6
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One of the first things I did was to add bags to my F250 Best move I ever did. Don't forget the onboard compressor. It's a must to have. I didnt have one on my first cross country trip and I was always pulling out my compressor to air up the bags. We stopped at 26 cities. Not fun driving around with 60 pounds of air in the bags so I had to air them down at every stop.
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Old 08-11-2018, 09:23 AM   #7
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I use my bike air pump to add air to my air bags--works well with the Monty hooked to the truck or without the Monty. The pump has its own gauge.
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:19 PM   #8
JABURKHOLDER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bnrc73 View Post
Been in my 2010 Montana 3400RL for about 3 months now. TV is a 2011 f350 Super Duty SRW 6.7 diesel. Finally hit the scales today. Trailer 11440lbs TV 11320lbs total 22760lbs. Raised the pin box off of the 5th wheel plate. TV 9330lbs Trailer 13440lbs total 22770lbs Rear sag hooked up is 3in. Front end raise is 1/8 in. Looks to me like my pin weight is 2490lbs. Is that 3in sag need air bags? I would appreciate any opinions on my numbers. Thanks in advance. Rick
Rick,

I am not sure about your math. If your tow vehicle, without trailer, weighs 9330lbs and your pin weight is 2490lbs, then your truck tow weight would be 11820lbs. That is over the GVWR of your truck.

Based on the numbers you provided, your pin weight is 1990lbs which is only 14.8% of your trailer weight.

I sorry, but none of the math adds up.

A few questions if you don't mind.
Weight of the truck by itself.....9330lbs ?
Weight of the truck hooked to the RV but only the truck wheels on the scale.....11320lbs ?
Combined weight of truck and RV, all wheels on the scale.....22760lbs ?
Weight of the RV by itself.....13440lbs ?
Is your truck 2wd or 4wd ?
What is the GVWR of your truck ? If its 2wd, its between 10500lbs - 11500lbs. If its 4wd, its between 11000lbs - 11500lbs. the door tag will give that weight.

With those 6 things, I can tell you a whole lot of info on your numbers as you requested.

As far as the sag goes, you may be bottoming out, or close to bottoming out on your snubbers leaving no room for suspension travel.
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:37 PM   #9
Bnrc73
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TV by itself, 9330. TV with tt 11320. 11320 - 9330 = 1990 pin weight. (You were right, senior moment) What % should the pin weight be?
4 wd sticker on truck gawr front 5600lbs. Gawr rear 7000.
GVWR 11500lbs.
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:47 PM   #10
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First, good news, sort of. You are under your GCWR of 23500lbs but only by 740lbs.
Second, not so good news. At 11500lbs GVWR and a truck weight of 9330lbs, you have only 2170lbs available for cargo or PIN weight. Pin weight should be 15 - 25% of RV weight. With your RV at 13440lbs, your pin weight should be 2016lbs at the low end to 3360lbs at the high end. Most folks average about 21% which would be 2822lbs.
At this point you have no wiggle room. Anything over 16% will put you over your trucks GVWR. Add any weight to your RV and you will be over your trucks GVWR. Add any cargo to your truck and you will be over your trucks GVWR. Your truck is sagging 3 inches and you are light on you pin weight. Getting to proper pin weight may cause more sag and put you over GVWR.
I am not judging but the numbers say you don’t have the right truck. There is a bit more math, but none of it looks good. Sorry.
This may spark a debate, but numbers don’t lie.
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Old 08-12-2018, 12:30 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by JABURKHOLDER View Post
numbers don’t lie.
Nonsense! 78.2% of all statistics are made up!
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Old 08-12-2018, 04:40 AM   #12
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Hi

The correct position of the king pin of the trailer is centerline of the rear axle or .5 inches in front of centerline. This is per the TV manufacturer I know my Silverado specs the king pin .5 inch in front of the centerline of the rear axle.

If you hitch is in the correct location the front of the TV should not ”raise” at all when you put the weight on the hitch.

Ours is the opposite the front axle gains weight when the trailer is hooked.

I weighed a Ram for the owner a few months ago because the 5th wheel trailer was “steering” the truck. His front axle got lighter with the trailer hooked. It turned out to be the hitch misplace by 5/8 of an inch. Moved it to the .5 inch in front of centerline rear axle and corrected the problem.

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Old 08-13-2018, 09:52 AM   #13
Bnrc73
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Jaberkholder. Reweighed the truck by itself and its actually only 8700lbs. I think the additional weight to the pin makes my numbers come in. Although close to max I will add airbags for a level ride and piece of mind. Thanks for your expertise.
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Old 08-13-2018, 08:57 PM   #14
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Rick,
With your new numbers, your pin weight comes to 2620lbs which is 19.5% of your RV weight. Solid number. Just remember, you have almost no wiggle room on your trucks GVWR. I believe you only have 180lbs left before maxing out.
I agree with your assessment on the airbags. Better to have peace of mind than white knuckles.
Glad I could help.
Jerry
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Old 08-14-2018, 06:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
Hi

The correct position of the king pin of the trailer is centerline of the rear axle or .5 inches in front of centerline. This is per the TV manufacturer I know my Silverado specs the king pin .5 inch in front of the centerline of the rear axle.

If you hitch is in the correct location the front of the TV should not ”raise” at all when you put the weight on the hitch.

Ours is the opposite the front axle gains weight when the trailer is hooked.

I weighed a Ram for the owner a few months ago because the 5th wheel trailer was “steering” the truck. His front axle got lighter with the trailer hooked. It turned out to be the hitch misplace by 5/8 of an inch. Moved it to the .5 inch in front of centerline rear axle and corrected the problem.

Phil P
I think most folks mistake the change in angle “headlights in trees” for front end lift as the rear squats more than front?? I admit to being in that camp. And I think it may be true on bumper pulls as with load all on rear bumper steering does get lighter
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Old 08-14-2018, 06:43 PM   #16
Phil P
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Hi

If the hitch is installed properly and the TV is not overloaded the head lights will not change.

When we are fully loaded with the steam locomotive in the basement and wife and dog and all the stuff including fuel is loaded in our TV the TV is within 25 lbs of it GVW. The hitch is installed so the king pin is ˝ inch in front of the centerline of the rear axle per GM instructions. When loaded the front axle is near its max rating. I said near not close or even close enough to worry about it but do get heavier when loaded than it weighs when the fifth wheel is unhooked.

We have sense sold the big locomotive and the smaller one doesn’t load the trailer as heavy.

We get no change in the head lights.

The Ram I mentioned the hitch was installed by a company that specializes in hitches and it was 1/8 inch behind the centerline of the rear axle instead of ˝ inch in front of the centerline of the rear axle. The front axle got less weight when hooked up and this caused a controllability problem.

Phil P
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Old 08-14-2018, 06:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
Hi

If the hitch is installed properly and the TV is not overloaded the head lights will not change.

When we are fully loaded with the steam locomotive in the basement and wife and dog and all the stuff including fuel is loaded in our TV the TV is within 25 lbs of it GVW. The hitch is installed so the king pin is ˝ inch in front of the centerline of the rear axle per GM instructions. When loaded the front axle is near its max rating. I said near not close or even close enough to worry about it but do get heavier when loaded than it weighs when the fifth wheel is unhooked.

We have sense sold the big locomotive and the smaller one doesn’t load the trailer as heavy.

We get no change in the head lights.

The Ram I mentioned the hitch was installed by a company that specializes in hitches and it was 1/8 inch behind the centerline of the rear axle instead of ˝ inch in front of the centerline of the rear axle. The front axle got less weight when hooked up and this caused a controllability problem.

Phil P
That is a good point and to honest I have not actually looked at how the king pin relates to my rear axle!!! But I will now! I just assumed the 4 point puck and dealer had it right. But then assumptions are a dangerous thing!!
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Old 08-15-2018, 06:33 AM   #18
Phil P
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The puck system is just a mounting system the hitch manufacturer can build the hitch too suit the requirements of the TV manufacturer. The Anderson I looked at a couple of weeks ago had the ball in front of the centerline of the axle on a Ford 350


I would recommend the ˝ inch in front of centerline on all of these light duty trucks.



Phil
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:14 AM   #19
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Same here. Going to have to double check my hitch settings as well. Made an assumption. Need to verify.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
The puck system is just a mounting system the hitch manufacturer can build the hitch too suit the requirements of the TV manufacturer. The Anderson I looked at a couple of weeks ago had the ball in front of the centerline of the axle on a Ford 350


I would recommend the ˝ inch in front of centerline on all of these light duty trucks.



Phil
My hitch is actually the factory Mopar (built by Curt) so I expected it to be correct for my truck but i need to verify
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