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Old 07-23-2013, 04:20 PM   #41
WeBeFulltime
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Was this a "new" cop right out of school? As a retired trucker, I have seen many of the "new" "shake and bake" cops that would write a ticket that no seasoned and reasonable cop would.

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Old 07-23-2013, 04:22 PM   #42
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Ha! That's what I thought, he was a training officer there, I asked the Chief of Police.
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:36 PM   #43
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Ol Tanker hit the nail on the head "The term that is concerned with this issue is called reciprocity. All the states signed into it with federal guidance." When we run down the highways pulling these 5ers we are not commercial vehicles, but Recreational Vehicles. Arizona can't enforce their registration laws on an Illinois, Texas, or any other state resident. This appears to have started because one idiot cop did not know the law. Believe me, after working in local law enforcement and as a state police officer for over 30 years there are a bunch of idiots wearing the badge. But the good news is they are generally far and few between and most of the LEO's out there would put their life on the line for each of us. About alls you can do in that situation is politely ask to speak with a supervisor. If that isn't going to work then you have to decide if it is worth sticking around the next day to run the complaint up the idiots chain of command. Ozz got screwed and it isn't right. I hope he can get some satisfaction. A commercial tractor bobtailing with only his front plate is a different animal though.
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:50 PM   #44
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Oz, all I've got to say is that he is a poor excuse for a "training officer". We had a saying on our department, "Some guys will always be rookies".
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:48 AM   #45
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The whole ordeal was, and is, so frustrating, a guy does all he can do to be safe and abide by the law. You trust that the state issuing the plates know you will be legal wherever you go. I read Arizona's license requirements, they state if only one plate, it is to be on the rear. They do not specifically address out-of-state visitors, J&C, I guess that is where reciprocity comes in. The officer took a very long time with the ticket, maybe 15 minutes, so I imagine he was checking on it, the ticket came back 'Improper display of license plate' Neil, his 'command decision' was indeed that of a rookie!
It seems by the Missouri dept. of revenue knows that the law has caused problems, I really think I have a valid case against them. Now to find the time to file it and go to court..
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:51 AM   #46
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Hello Ozz

I have stayed out of this post because I am prejudice.

My brother and I are the last surviving persons of a group of 4 that obtained and Injunction against an entire county law enforcement group in Florida. The injunction was against the county commissioners, all city commissions and all city councils and all of their employees and all of their heirs.

This results in a police officer being in violation of a court order for even pulling one of us over for a traffic violation.

This was so broad that one day after having a confrontation with one of the local city police officers while standing at the duty desk I ask to see a copy of the Florida Uniform Traffic code. The officer on duty made the statement that they don’t allow just anyone to browse thru their regulation book. He then asks for my name. When I gave it to him the police chief sitting in his office with the door open jumped up so fast his chair turned over and hollered “give him anything he ask for”. The officer I was having a problem with was gone when I found what I wanted a turned to show it to him.

All of this was the result of having been harassed by the police and sheriff in this county for sever years. It was so bad that all of us had been arrested once a day for several years in a row. All charges went to trial and all verdicts were Not Guilty. When you get 360 not guilty verdicts in a row the higher courts take a very dim view of this.

There is more to this story but because I am now under subpoena to appear on a case similar to but not the same as I can’t go any further.

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Old 07-24-2013, 03:08 AM   #47
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Dang Phil, this deal must be very upsetting to your life. Sorry it happened, but might make a good movie? But seriously,
I think it is like JandC stated, most LEO's are great folks that serve to protect and have good hearts, but sometimes a rotten Apple can spoil the whole barrel. Wouldn't it be great for you to run against that regime and win? You could exact revenge then!
Good luck with the ordeal.
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Old 07-24-2013, 01:58 PM   #48
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I'll add nothing, but, we go to Texas every winter. In our park are about 6 couples from the KC,Mo. area.

When they get to Texas, they move their plates from the front to the back. Almost all have been stopped and find it easier than try and explain to the locals they are legal in the tagging state.

The ticket, was wrong for Ozz, but you have to determine your situation at the time of the encounter and make a decision. The officer would probably have arrested me. Then I'd have sued him for false arrest.
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:25 PM   #49
Phil P
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Ozz

For 2 years I taught a class in a very restricted collage that taught Detectives how to use certain types of surveillance equipment.

Unfortunately you met the average. The good police don’t ever make detective grade and seldom stay on the force very long.

They have to have the power to control the environment they function in unfortunately the majority of them let that type of power corrupt them.

In general all you have to remember when you are confronted by the police is that standing on the side of the road you do not have any rights. You only have rights when you get in front of the judge.

Between the 4 of use we were arrested a total of 1,640 times. All charges went to court because we insisted on going to court. The only times any of us refused to follow a police officer’s instructions was when we were direct told to violate a law that was clearly written on the documents we had presented when ask to present them by the arresting office.

All arrest was for traffic violations except the resisting arrest because we would perform an act that was a direct violation of a law.

Never found guilty on a single arrest.

That ended in 1966.

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Old 07-25-2013, 09:09 PM   #50
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ozz

The whole ordeal was, and is, so frustrating, a guy does all he can do to be safe and abide by the law. You trust that the state issuing the plates know you will be legal wherever you go. I read Arizona's license requirements, they state if only one plate, it is to be on the rear. They do not specifically address out-of-state visitors, J&C, I guess that is where reciprocity comes in. The officer took a very long time with the ticket, maybe 15 minutes, so I imagine he was checking on it, the ticket came back 'Improper display of license plate' Neil, his 'command decision' was indeed that of a rookie!
It seems by the Missouri dept. of revenue knows that the law has caused problems, I really think I have a valid case against them. Now to find the time to file it and go to court..
Ozz, I believe you are going to strike out on trying to hold Missouri responsible for Arizona's failure to abide by Federal law.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:24 AM   #51
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Tom, I haven't been able to find anything in writing ( on the Internet) that addresses reciprocity. If you, or JandC could direct me to it, that would be great. The only thing I found was Arizona's law requiring a plate on the rear of a vehicle.
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:29 AM   #52
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Reciprocity comes from the Full Faith and Credit clause.

Arizona cannot enforce Missouri's laws, but will permit a Missouri registered vehicle to have the same "rights" as an Arizona registered vehicle. Same with the drivers.

I doubt you could sue Missouri for doing something that in another state is already legal, this being the front license plate issue. Arizona permits the Missouri vehicle, under the FF&C clause, to be driven in their state with the plate on the front and no plate on the back.

You just had an officer who does not know the law as pertains to reciprocity.

Just my two cents...
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:46 AM   #53
Ozz
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Yes, Michael, but where is this documented? If Missouri issues a plate, and a location of display that may be illegal in another state, and a Missouri driver gets a ticket, I would think Missouri would be breaking a law.
If I could find where this is explained, my beef would be in Goodyear Arizona. I called everyone and inquired with everyone in the government, right up to Jan Brewer, the Governor, and all stated that if one plate is issued, it must be on the rear. (If you are in their state.) I could find nothing about the reciprocity.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:36 PM   #54
Phil P
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Ozz

Is this the second thread you have posted on this subject?

I am pretty sure it is.

On the first or second page of your first thread a fellow posted the Congressional Act that requires the states to honor all other states regulations on several things.

It was a detailed post that would answer all of your questions about the states being REQUIRED to honor the state of registrations rules, regulation and laws on this type of situation.

I just found it. It is not an act of Congress it is Article IV, Section 1 of the United States Constitution.

You would have to sue in federal court in the state that violated the United States Constitution.

Unfortunately the search function on this forum doesn’t seem to work like it use to and I can’t bring up threads by the posters name.

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Old 07-27-2013, 03:30 AM   #55
Ozz
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Thanks Phil, the post was about the ticket issued. Thanks for the research, I will try and bring that up.

I read it as referring to something else, maybe I am missing it, what do you all think?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article...s_Constitution
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Old 07-27-2013, 12:02 PM   #56
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Hi

Both “Full faith and credit” and “privileges and immunities” apply in your case.

Even though the second has what appear to be conflicting decision by the learned legal scholars.

Your problem is you paid the ticket. That constitutes admitting you violated the rule, regulation or law the officer said you did. Even if you petition the state for a hearing you probably will not get one because technically you were acting as a “responsible” person. “Responsible” meaning not impaired any way by physical or mental capacity.

I am glad I only write reports based on my opinion and understanding of the rules, regulations and laws and don’t have to appear in court.

I am now working on one that involves something similar and if the attorney I am working for thinks I am getting to close to his case I will suddenly disappear from the forums until the case is finished.

Phil P
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