More weight information - Page 4 - Montana Owners Club

dsprik · 01-28-2006, 02:17 PM

OK, Dave...where's your footnotes... where did you get that info from? 900 #s EXTRA??? You're really trying to make my day. You should have PMed me so that I didn't have to cry in public!!!

Did they mention any thing about noise reduction?

Wrenchtraveller · 01-28-2006, 03:11 PM

Montana Sky, If you can keep repeating that you don't think the double pane windows are worth the weight and the expense then I guess I can keep repeating IMHO that they are and I believe the source of information you have about a 900 pound increase in weight for these windows is wrong.

Montana Sky · 01-28-2006, 03:13 PM

Wrenchtraveller,
I am sorry, I did not want to give the impression they are not worth it. It is personal choice, I just wanted to state the facts as far as weight and R value. The rest is up to the buyer.

The 900 lbs is for a 3400RL, this number is going to change based on what floorplan you have.

Wrenchtraveller · 01-28-2006, 04:03 PM

I just removed a double pane slider from my house, weighed it, did the math and calculated the weight of double panes used in my house as 4 pounds a square foot. I went out to my 2955RL and measured all the windows on the generous side.........total of 72.5 square feet of glass.

I did the math and that means the total weight of the windows in my Montana would be 290 pounds if they were the same weight as my double pane windows in my stick house.

Let's say safety glass is double the weight of my stick house glass , that makes my Montana's windows a total of 580 pounds . If they weigh twice as much as the single glaze windows that means that double pane windows add 290 pounds to the unit. This is figuring on the heavy side.

The 3400RL only has one more small window in the kitchen than a 2955RL

When you say the double pane windows add 900 pounds you are saying that the total weight of the double pane windows is 1800 pounds.

1800 pounds of glass in a 5th wheel, I think not, and I am sure your source of information is wrong.

dsprik · 01-28-2006, 05:20 PM

Don, I sent you a PM.

richfaa · 01-29-2006, 03:48 AM

As I was searching for answers to the weight questing I had reservations about the general statement that Gel Coat added 600lbs to a RV..they are different sizes, different number of windows..How could it all be the same weight..Same with the double pane windows..and that is just my point...WE DON"T KNOW AND THEY ARE NOT TELLING US.Had no problem looking up the weight of the 5.5 onan..went to onan site and there it was. Same with the roof A/C.The manufacturer knows..Montana Knows/ Why can't we know so we can make a decision based on fact... Wrenchtravellers observations as to the EXTRA weight added makes more sense to me..Would it not be nice if Montana published those weights..

sreigle · 01-30-2006, 08:58 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Broome101

Rich they say gel coat weighs 600 libs but I doubt that. Friend of mine has one just like mine but without gel coat his weight sticker inside the sink door states the same as mine with gel coat, so go figure.

That sticker won't give you a clue. It's not even necessarily what yours weighed leaving the factory.

At last year's Tampa RV Show a Keystone exec (Coleman) told me that sticker is what that model weighs "with standard options." When asked he explained "standard options" are those most often ordered.

That brings up something else I was thinking about. The "standard optinos" might explain why many of us got a feature or two for free that we did not order. For example, we did not order the outside shower but ours came with it anyhow. Thinking about this, it makes good business sense that it might be cheaper to install the outside shower on all of a model, collect the money from those who order it and give it for free to those who don't. The thinking is that it takes time and money to cut the extra hole for the outside shower unit. And there would be some mistakes, leading to waste of some expensive outside panels. Plus, the panels would be different, with and without the shower, which probably reduces some volume discounts, requires separate storage, etc. It might be cheaper to just have one panel that includes the hole for the outside shower and just give a free shower to those who don't order it.

So, my guess is that 'standard options' means every Montana of that model includes certain options that normally cost extra but are installed for free when not ordered. I may be way offbase but this is the only explanation I can come up with.

I heard 600 for the gel coat but really have no clue what it actually weighs. We have the gel coat but not the dual paned windows. If we were ordering again we'd have both.

By the way, the weight listed in the brochure is for a rig with "standard options" and does NOT include battery nor propane bottles as those are provided by the dealer, not the factory. No fluids, no gear, etc.

sreigle · 01-30-2006, 09:06 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Dustytuu

Don't know if this is true but we have been told that average personal effects for two people including household items is around a 1000 pounds.

Dusty, that may be right for weekending and vacationing but I'd be willing to bet fulltimers carry a whole lot more than that. The sticker in our cabinet says "10760". To that add the highgloss gelcoat, washer, dryer, two full propane bottles, nearly full fresh water tank, all our gear, other options, etc., and the scale says "14,360." A chunk of that is our personal and household goods but I don't know exactly how much of the 3600 lb weight gain is what.

GVWR on this 3295RK is 14,300, so we're 60 lbs over. On the 2006 models the GVWR is 14,500.

sreigle · 01-30-2006, 09:11 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by dsprik

How do people go with the gel coat, dual windows, generator, upgraded furniture, 2nd A/C, etc - and plan on putting anything else in the Monty? And another thing I just thought of... how much weight are four slide awnings, with all the hardware?

People do this, I know. How do they get away with that? And of course, they sometimes go down the road with at least a minimal amount of water (1/3 full sometimes, I've heard) in their tanks.

Even better question: How do dealers get away with not warning buyers of this problem? If they let someone go off their lot like this and something happens... I hear the words, "LAW SUIT". They know better. Maybe they are covered if the buyer goes off the lot with at least 1 lb left of CC? If in the minus column, maybe they are liable then? I don't know.

I have never heard of any problems on the road caused by an overweight CC problem, though. This has to be occurring... especially by non-MOCers who only are getting their education from the selling dealer.

I think this begs a different questions. Take a look at the specs for all models of Montana. There is a significant difference in listed carrying capacity. Why? Are the frames that much different? I doubt it. Is there much difference in interior appointments? Well, our 3295RK has a large kitchen peninsula and overhead cabinets above that. That would ADD to the weight. Yet the 3295RK shows the highest listed carrying capacity. Length of rig would account for some difference but the numbers in the specs don't appear to be related to rig length. Therefore I suspect to figure this out we'd have to know how they are calculating the CC. And the GVWR. And the hitch weight. I don't have a clue as to how those are figured.

richfaa · 01-30-2006, 11:01 AM

I started this thread 7 pages ago , learned a lot but still don't know what these options weigh and I guess we can say that none of us do. I am going to try to find out. I will call Montana and see if anyone there knows or can find out. We are ordering in 3 weeks and I sure would like to know because like Steve R. Says and does, things can sure add up..I mean we had nearly 1700 LBS in our TT.I would like the gel coat but not at the expense of 600LBs that we could use elsewhere.

richfaa · 01-31-2006, 03:03 AM

Well our attempts to find out the weight of the various options have so far been unsuccessful. Not that we have not been able to speak to several folks at Montana.We have not found anyone yet that knows the answer.

richfaa · 01-31-2006, 03:41 AM

Got a quick return call from Montana(in less thant 1/2 hour) from Charles Wade. If you doubt what I say give him a call. Just call the switchboard and ask for him. We spoke for at least 1/2 hour

The ADDITIONAL weight of the HIGLOSS GEL COAT on a 3400 is 250lbs;
The ADDITIONAL weight of the Dual pane windows on a 3400 is 300lbs

Now those numbers make sense to me. The 600lb numbers was fiction.

What is the difference between the regular finish and the Hi gloss gel coat..They are BOTH gel coat finish One is hi gloss one is not. The hi gloss cost more because of the LABOR cost to apply the High GlOSS. Also he noted that the DECALS stick better to the hi gloss finish BUT in the event of damage to the hi gloss it is very difficult to match the material and paint. That the average weight of a loaded 3400, dual air, Hi gloss, Dual pane windows , upgrades is around 11,900//This , he says is how they build nearly all of them for the West Coast. The weights on the site and in the book are no good and they are working to update everything ..AND..Montana does read the MOC forum. so use the forum and use it wisely.
So to me this separates Urban legend and reality. I have the numbers from MONTANA and from a person who's busines it is to know. And proves another point..If you ask the right person the right question in the right manner you will get the the answer you are looking for. Hope this helps..did me//

Montana Sky · 01-31-2006, 09:21 AM

Rich,
Charles Wade is awesome! He is the one who helped me with the ordering of my 2004 3400RL at the Spokane rv show back in Jan of 04. He went out of his way to allow me to change the color of my carpet, I wanted the spring floral interior but, not the light green carpet, I wanted the merlot color carpet. Charles made that happen! =) I have had to chance to talk with him over the past two years at the local rv shows and would highly trust what he has to say. The funny thing is I just got off the phone with Customer Service at Keystone and they continue to claim the dual pane windows add approx. 900lbs to the weight of the coach. Guess it all depends on who you talk to. I like your numbers from Charles much better, trust him! I sure do. Since Keystone reads the MOC comments, maybe when updating the website they could make a weight list for all of their options on their as well. Thanks for updating the weight Rich, sure nice to get it straight from the Rep.

Sweetfire · 01-31-2006, 09:37 AM

OK Rich, one question and maybe I'm all wet here but is the HIGLOSS 250 pounds MORE than the regular finish or would you subtract the weight of the standard finish from the HIGLOSS to get the net increase?

CountryGuy · 01-31-2006, 10:03 AM

Well, what a depressing state of affairs! do you hear Al wailing! We did not buy the high gloss, why???? ONE REASON and ONE REASON only! 600 pounds! If, we had heard 250 and had been pretty sure that was the true difference we would have had what he wanted, as he says, in a heart beat. As this is probably our last rv purchase, we will now have to live with it till, whenever, can you hear him crying?? ohhhh, I asked that already didn't I?? We both realize that the numbers on the unit and in the brochure are never quite on, they were wrong on our last TT, everyone we have ever talked to that weighed their units fresh from the dealer before loading on even one pillow says their weights were in actual real life more than the brochures! BUT, that 600 pound number has been tossed around for so long, and in the brochures for so long, we figured it was kinda close. Now you tell us it is only 250 pounds, do you hear us WAILING???? How discouraging for us.

Oh, well, the pool is calling our names, we will go drownd our sorrows in the hot tub!

Rudi and Ellen · 01-31-2006, 10:39 AM

Does anyone know why the 2004 and 2005 3295 model has a far greater carrying capacity than any of the other models?

richfaa · 01-31-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Sweetfire

OK Rich, one question and maybe I'm all wet here but is the HIGLOSS 250 pounds MORE than the regular finish or would you subtract the weight of the standard finish from the HIGLOSS to get the net increase?

The high gloss finish is 250 pounds heaver than the regular finish. It took me over 1 hour to find a person that KNEW the answers to my question. There is always someone who knows..just have to find them I always had a problem with the high weight numbers for the gloss finish and the Dual pane windows..What bugged me was that we could find no one with the proper answers. Today I was determined to find the proper person with the proper answers.I mean we order the 25th of Feb..I needed to know...

Montana Sky · 01-31-2006, 12:26 PM

Carol,
I am with you and Al, if I had known that the true weight was 250 lbs and 600 lbs was off I would have ordered the hi-gloss without hesitation. That is the only option I did not order and after seeing all the new Montana's at the show with hi-gloss I sure wish I had it. Well I have my lotto ticket so maybe I will be able to buy a new one after all. =)

CountryGuy · 01-31-2006, 01:45 PM

Montana Sky,

Whodathunkit??? Our experience is that weights are usually stated at say (EXAMPLE HERE) 10,000 pounds and the unit will really weigh, ohhhhhh, 10,150 pounds. Who would have guessed they said something was 600 when in reality it was 250?? That has to be a FIRST in the RV industry???

We cannot afford to buy new, nor are we willing to "fix er up" again, all the little stuff we have done to customize it. Nope, a new one is NOT in our future, and we are sick at heart tonight to have learned this huge numerical difference.

Oh, well, guess we have to go back to the hot tub AGAIN!!!

richfaa · 01-31-2006, 02:46 PM

When I asked were the 600lbs came from he replied no one really knew.Maybe no one ever weighed the DIFFERENCE. Makes no difference..they know and so do we.As for the Dual pane glass weights of 300lbs Wrenchtraveller did a little experiment a few post back on Dual pane windows weight and came up with 290 lbs as the weight of the windows..nearly right on the money. When Charles said the difference was @ 300lbs that's the first thing that came to mind..One of our guys did the calculations and got the same number.That's called verifying the data by two independent sources..Anyhow after all the talk about Hi gloss gel coat we decided NOT to order it.Bottom line it is @1800.00 worth of eye candy.Has no other functional use.It is prettier so if you like it buy it..weight is no issue.

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