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Old 11-20-2019, 08:01 AM   #1
jfaberna
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M.O.C. #13909
LCI hydraulic pump breaker?

I have a 2014 3402RL and it has whatever hydraulic pump circuit breaker was installed by Keystone in November of 2013. I've read about people having their breaker trips especially in colder weather. I have not used my RV in cold weather that much, but this year it's parked in the backyard and I've been doing a lot of projects on it and opening the slides a lot so I've experienced the breaker tripping more than before. So I thought I'd investigate.

The advice seems to be replace the 50A with an 80A breaker. I have no idea what mine is I have a picture of what I think is the breaker. The red thing on the right has a big wire going to the battery and the red thing on the left has a wire going to the pump. Not sure what to replace or how to find out which of the 2 red things is a breaker that needs to be replaced. Also where do you get a new breaker?

FYI, I have a battery monitor and when I'm putting out the slides I see 70 amps on the ODS slides and 90 amps on the DS slide. Coming in I see 80 amps on the OSD slides and 115 amps on the DS slide. Not sure why a 50 amp breaker wouldn't trip every time the pump was started?


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Old 11-20-2019, 10:02 AM   #2
Arkware
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Hey Jim,

The red thing on the left, with the wire going to the pump, is the breaker you want to replace.

I used this one...

https://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-CB18...9HY/ref=sr_1_1
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:16 AM   #3
twindman
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Jim, the hole in the wire may need to get 'reamed' out to fit on some breakers. Maybe arkware can tell you if this will be needed.
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:50 AM   #4
jcurtis934
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If I had a current probe I would measure my hydraulic pump motor to see what it now reads after all these years. But your noted currents seem way high to me. My guess is that you are not connected to a "shore power" source in your backyard and therefore the battery/batteries are sagging in voltage as this high load is being placed on them. Therefore that motor is demanding more current to keep it operating normally. If you see these types of readings when hooked up to a 50 amp pedestal, you might be having a motor that is having issues. Those cheapie self resetting bimetallic "breakers" installed by keystone will require less and less current to open them as the contacts burn from arcing.
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Old 11-20-2019, 08:13 PM   #5
jfaberna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkware View Post
Hey Jim,

The red thing on the left, with the wire going to the pump, is the breaker you want to replace.

I used this one...

https://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-CB18...9HY/ref=sr_1_1
Thanks for the link.
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Old 11-20-2019, 08:20 PM   #6
jfaberna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcurtis934 View Post
...My guess is that you are not connected to a "shore power" source in your backyard and therefore the battery/batteries are sagging in voltage as this high load is being placed on them. Therefore that motor is demanding more current to keep it operating normally. If you see these types of readings when hooked up to a 50 amp pedestal, you might be having a motor that is having issues. Those cheapie self resetting bimetallic "breakers" installed by keystone will require less and less current to open them as the contacts burn from arcing.
I'm not connected to 120V as you suspected. Since I got my Victron Energy BVM 712 I've been keeping a close look at ah used and max currents along with battery capacity %. My batteries are 2-6 volt deep cycle golf cart batteries in series rated at 210 ah at 20hr. (C20=210). while the current does go high it's just for 45 seconds total. So the ah used to open and close them is a total of 5 ah. So it's seems to be a small percentage of my total capacity.

I'll check the voltage dip the next time I put out the slides on battery and then on 50A shore power to compare.
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Old 11-20-2019, 08:55 PM   #7
Daryles
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Have a look in the files section
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...hp?do=cat&id=3
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Old 11-20-2019, 09:30 PM   #8
BB_TX
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I agree that the breaker on the left is most likely the one to replace. But just to make sure before you start changing it, trace the large black wire from your pump to make sure it goes to that breaker.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:25 PM   #9
rohrmann
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The large hot wire comes from the battery and connects to the line side of the first breaker. Off the line side of the first breaker is a jumper that continues the battery feed to the line side of the second breaker on the left. Off of the load side of the second breaker is two cables, one that feeds the hydraulic pump and the other that feeds the inside electric panel 12 volt section, via the battery disconnect switch. 12 volts from the batteries feed all the 12 volt loads in the panel, but through that same line is also 12 volts from the converter that feeds the batteries when you are connected to shore power. When the cheap 50 amp bi-metal breaker starts to weaken from age and use, no amount of shore power will make it work to handle the load from the hydraulic pump. Our rig was barely 12 months old when the breaker started causing issues and I found the fix of replacing the breaker with the 80 amp breaker. We have had zero issues since the replacement and we full time. And yes, you will have to open up the holes in the ring connectors a bit to fit the larger terminal posts on the 80 amp breaker, but just connect the cables to the new breaker exactly as they are connected to the old breaker, and the new breaker will have indications showing which is the line and load side.
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Old 11-21-2019, 04:39 AM   #10
jfaberna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohrmann View Post
The large hot wire comes from the battery and connects to the line side of the first breaker. Off the line side of the first breaker is a jumper that continues the battery feed to the line side of the second breaker on the left. Off of the load side of the second breaker is two cables, one that feeds the hydraulic pump and the other that feeds the inside electric panel 12 volt section, via the battery disconnect switch. 12 volts from the batteries feed all the 12 volt loads in the panel, but through that same line is also 12 volts from the converter that feeds the batteries when you are connected to shore power. When the cheap 50 amp bi-metal breaker starts to weaken from age and use, no amount of shore power will make it work to handle the load from the hydraulic pump. Our rig was barely 12 months old when the breaker started causing issues and I found the fix of replacing the breaker with the 80 amp breaker. We have had zero issues since the replacement and we full time. And yes, you will have to open up the holes in the ring connectors a bit to fit the larger terminal posts on the 80 amp breaker, but just connect the cables to the new breaker exactly as they are connected to the old breaker, and the new breaker will have indications showing which is the line and load side.
Great explanation. What is the first breaker on the right and should it every be replaced???
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:46 AM   #11
rohrmann
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The other breaker has the small loads that aren’t connected to the main panel, such as the LP detector and on some rigs the CO detector. I just replaced the other one and have never had an issue with this one.
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Old 11-25-2019, 11:48 AM   #12
jfaberna
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M.O.C. #13909
Thanks all for your help. I replaced the 50amp breaker with the Cooper Bussmann 80amp and it's working fine. It did not trip when I put the main slides out today and the current stayed about the same. The voltage does drop while operating to as low as 11.3v. Jumps back up to 12.6v when it stops.

I have not checked the current and voltage when the slides are extended while the 120 AC is hooked up. It can only get better than it is now which is no problems. My desire is to not have the RV plugged in all winter. No need to have the cord spread across the yard because the solar keeps the batteries in shape.
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Old 11-27-2019, 02:21 PM   #13
RichardSRY
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My RV mechanic replaced my old CB in my 2013 3402RL with the one below and everything works great. I bought an extra just to have on hang.



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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