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12-10-2019, 08:12 AM
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#21
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 735
M.O.C. #25060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazboy
you are over thinking this whole thing.
Keep it simple, any 2020 one ton diesel truck will do you just fine.
Even the 3/4 2020 GMC will work, look at the test that Trailer Life did.
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Where are the 2020 numbers on Trailerlife? I only found the 2019 and lower numbers...
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12-10-2019, 08:13 AM
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#22
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 735
M.O.C. #25060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.3Ford
I am also a SRW guy, since my HOA will not allow a Dually. I have had 2001 F350 for 18 years, which I just sold. I order a 2020 RAM 3500 SRW yesterday (will be 16 weeks, but has everything I wanted).
TFLTruck YouTube channel has lots of good real world test, for all the Trucks, you might want to take a look at. They test max loads up a 7% grade.
On the RAM you want to stay away from the 68RFE Transmission, it can't handle the torque. I ordered the Higher Output Cummins which is matched to the Aisin Transmission.
I don't think you can go wrong with any of the Big three, I would stick to the F350 or 3500 though, there isn't that much price difference. On the RAM the High Output Cummins is only available on 3500 and above.
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I would only consider a RAM with an Aisin...
I have watched a lot of videos on the TFL Channel.
You live in a rough neighborhood if your HOA won't allow DRW!!! That's something that I would have never thought of...
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12-10-2019, 08:22 AM
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#23
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Indian Land
Posts: 1,142
M.O.C. #9808
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Actually it says nothing over 3/4 Ton, but the look the other way on SRW, but DRW will get a fine.
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12-10-2019, 08:46 AM
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#24
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Indian Land
Posts: 1,142
M.O.C. #9808
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Btw, your number on 2019/2020 RAM 3500 SRW is wrong. With Cummins Diesel, it is 12,300 lbs GVWR. The gas engine SRW is 11,400 GVWR. I would not get the lower output Cummins, as it comes with the 68RFE transmission. The High Output Cummins comes with the Aisin transmission.
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12-10-2019, 11:54 AM
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#25
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 735
M.O.C. #25060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.3Ford
Btw, your number on 2019/2020 RAM 3500 SRW is wrong. With Cummins Diesel, it is 12,300 lbs GVWR. The gas engine SRW is 11,400 GVWR. I would not get the lower output Cummins, as it comes with the 68RFE transmission. The High Output Cummins comes with the Aisin transmission.
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Thanks for catching that!
Sometimes it was hard to tell which line I was on, and keep it all straight. That would also pull the HO numbers more inline. The max HO is still way high for whatever reason...
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12-10-2019, 12:06 PM
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#26
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 735
M.O.C. #25060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazboy
you are over thinking this whole thing.
Keep it simple, any 2020 one ton diesel truck will do you just fine.
Even the 3/4 2020 GMC will work, look at the test that Trailer Life did.
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You are correct that it would "pass" by the numbers. However, at this point, I do not actually know the pin weight of our 5er. I used the stated weight, and that is most likely not correct. There is very little wiggle room there, and I'm over capacity on a 2500 model for sure...
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12-10-2019, 01:05 PM
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#27
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Full Timer In Naples, Florida
Posts: 1,049
M.O.C. #15731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CADman_KS
LOL. You are correct.
But, upon further investigation, the 2020 GM and Ram are very very close in all the numbers, except MAX towing. But, it goes back to, how does the Ram have such a higher max towing compared to everything else? If that is the max towing, you've exceeded the max payload with pin weight. Math doesn't add up.
And, I don't need that much max towing anyway. My trailer max is 16,500 anyways, so I don't need more than that, which all of the 250/0 can handle, BUT they can't handle the pin weight. SMH...
I didn't say this in my OP, but I do like the idea of a 10 speed transmission. I think that would be the ultimate towing slush box. It should be able to drop down a gear on small hills, and not over-rev the engine like my current truck does. Then again, it probably doesn't need a 10 speed transmission when it has over 900 ft-lbs of torque...
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The math will add up as i use my truck to haul my friends equipment trailer loaded with a backhoe on a goose neck at 24000 lbs 3 axle but only have 2800 pounds on the ball. that might be the confusion.
__________________
2017, 3500 Ram Big Horn, 4x4, Crew Cab, DRW, Aisin Transmission, 4:10. Curt Q20, 2014 Mountaineer 331 RLT, Sailun's on the rv and truck.
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12-10-2019, 02:06 PM
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#28
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 735
M.O.C. #25060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagleback
The math will add up as i use my truck to haul my friends equipment trailer loaded with a backhoe on a goose neck at 24000 lbs 3 axle but only have 2800 pounds on the ball. that might be the confusion.
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True. I was thinking of that more in the fifth wheel arena, and not a flat bed trailer with a load over the axles of the trailer. You can get the pin weight to just about whatever you want in that scenario...
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12-10-2019, 03:04 PM
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#29
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Indian Land
Posts: 1,142
M.O.C. #9808
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My 2015 3611RL runs around 3,600 pin weight, 5th wheel at max 16,000. Hope that helps. We were load for long trip 309 days and about 23,000 miles.
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12-10-2019, 03:12 PM
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#30
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 735
M.O.C. #25060
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Off topic slightly...
Does anyone know if the numbers that Keystone puts on the trailer decal are the ACTUAL numbers for that unit, or the theoretical - "we weighed the first one of these and it weighed XXXXX", so that's what gets put on all labels for a particular model?
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12-10-2019, 03:30 PM
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#31
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Indian Land
Posts: 1,142
M.O.C. #9808
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I believe they are for Max Load they have on the sticker. I got 5 years out of the G-614 and wear was even all the way across, but at 5 years, the G-614's started loosing chucks of rubber, so I replaced them with Discount Tire's brand G tire, last September.
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12-10-2019, 04:18 PM
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#32
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: West Melbourne
Posts: 310
M.O.C. #18980
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Attached is a spreadsheet I use to keep track of my weights. Top section is weights from a scale with/without 5th wheel. With an 1 ton SRW I am 100+ overweight on my gvwr. I see a lot of 3/4 ton trucks pulling heavier rigs than mine so I would not be too concerned about a little overweight. Don’t trust the dry weight specs from the brochures, my rig is 500 lbs heavier on the pin than specs loaded with all my crap...
__________________
Butch and Kathy
2016 3160RL Legacy, Sailun S637, Centramatic Balancers, 2-T105s, Amish Refrigeration, ARPrv, SoftStartRV, FlexArmor roof
2016 F350 6.7L SRW
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12-10-2019, 04:21 PM
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#33
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,550
M.O.C. #2283
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If you really wont to understand tow ratings or be even more confused do a google search for J2807 Tow limits. For instance why are the DRW trucks tested at 30 MPH while the SRW trucks are tested at 35 MPP??? Stoping distanced isn’t tested at highway speeds it’s at Walmart parking lot speeds. Read it and maybe you won’t worry about it nearly as much.
Lynwood
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12-10-2019, 06:09 PM
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#34
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Livermore
Posts: 5,146
M.O.C. #1920
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Someone mentioned the Aisin tranny on the Rams. I had one of the first 3500’s in 2013 with the Aisin. They had a joint venture with Allison. All of your Japanese cars have an Aisin tranny. The Aisin is a medium duty truck transmission and is nothing like the old 45RFE tranny that failed so many.
__________________
Ron and Terrie Ames - MOC #1920/KF0NTA
2021Montana 3230CK Super Solar Legacy Package
2021 Ram 3500 Laramie Longhorn, BIM Charging
4x4, SRW, LB, Crew Cab, Pullrite 3900 Hitch
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12-10-2019, 06:38 PM
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#35
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,550
M.O.C. #2283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rames14
Someone mentioned the Aisin tranny on the Rams. I had one of the first 3500’s in 2013 with the Aisin. They had a joint venture with Allison. All of your Japanese cars have an Aisin tranny. The Aisin is a medium duty truck transmission and is nothing like the old 45RFE tranny that failed so many.
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The Aisin is a great transmission not to be confused with the standard transmission.
Lynwood
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12-10-2019, 08:05 PM
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#36
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 735
M.O.C. #25060
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It's about to get real...
Talked with the wife tonight, and she was/is onboard with becoming a two truck family. We would trade in our SUV, and keep the current truck.
There are some killer deals out there on 2020 3500 SRW Chevy's right now, and I'm not for sure why.
Might do some dealer calling tomorrow...
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12-10-2019, 10:11 PM
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#37
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: lake stevens
Posts: 504
M.O.C. #24938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CADman_KS
Off topic slightly...
Does anyone know if the numbers that Keystone puts on the trailer decal are the ACTUAL numbers for that unit, or the theoretical - "we weighed the first one of these and it weighed XXXXX", so that's what gets put on all labels for a particular model?
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I do know that ALL Motor Homes are weighed at the factory and this specific weight is a required on the individual build sheet. My last Class A when I went to license it I was required to contact the factory and get the actual build out weight of my Vin.
I believe that Trailers have the same requirement as some states will require weight for licensing as weight determins wear and tear on roadways and they (some states) want to be paid for that extra wear. My State Washington will not accept published weights it has to be Vin specific.
You should contact Keystone for all the build data on your Vin#, simple phone cal should do it (that's what I did with my Class A with Fleetwood)
I could be wrong about trailers but my guess is you can get that Vin specific Data from Keystone.
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12-11-2019, 03:21 AM
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#38
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bastrop
Posts: 2,892
M.O.C. #20753
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they are weighed and are actual numbers per a QC video put out by Keystone
__________________
Mocha, one-eyed toothless, hurricane survivor, Pirate dog
2019 20th Anniversary Edition 3701LK
B&W 20K for Ford OEM Puck
2018 Ford F-350 Lariat CCLB PSD DRW KJ5CQH
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12-11-2019, 04:54 AM
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#39
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Willis
Posts: 896
M.O.C. #20587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CADman_KS
Yeah, that's where I'm going to be with my DW as well.
As for the gasser, I just can't do that. When towing, the diesel pickup will absolutely walk away from that gas motor, AND it will not sound like it is about to blow itself up doing it.
I've owned diesels for a LONG time, even some cars, and at the end of the day, the real difference is that diesels make power effortlessly. We have a gas SUV now (had a diesel SUV before this), and even driving them when not towing is different. The gasser just sounds like it is about to explode when you want it to do work. The diesels just get it done.
Towing is about torque. Has nothing to do with HP. With that being said, the HP of the 7.3 gasser and the 6.7 diesel are not actually that far off, and the diesel is over TWICE on torque. It wouldn't even be a fair fight...
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Talked with the dealer yesterday. The new 7.3 gasser will not have the carry capacity for the Montanas.
__________________
2018 Montana 3791RD (SOLD)
2017 Ram 3500 DRW 6.7 Cummins Aisin, B&W RVK3600 (SOLD)
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12-11-2019, 05:39 AM
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#40
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: westminster md
Posts: 2,318
M.O.C. #17894
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I know you stated you do not want a dually, but towing a 16,500 fifth wheel is clearly in dually territory. Your pin weight alone could be north of 4k. Now add in a hitch/driver/passengers/firewood /generator etc.in the bed and IMHO you will be well beyond the capabilities of any SRW truck.
__________________
2018 Chevy 3500 LTZ Dually Diesel 4x4 CCLB
2011 Montana 3455 SA. 6 point level up. Disc brakes. Curt Q24 Hitch. 5 step glow steps
Progressive EMS. Valterra tank valves. Sailun G637 tires. ARP fridge control. All led lighting. Mor Ryde IS
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