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Old 07-19-2011, 07:44 AM   #1
Drought Buster
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Fresh Water Tank Issue

Hi everyone. I have a new Montana High Country and am having trouble with the fresh water tank. More than half the times that I have tried to fill the fresh water tank it stops accepting water when the tank sensor reads 1/3 or 2/3 full and I know I have not put enough water in to fill it completely. However, it keeps coming back out of the fill tube and I can't get any more to go in. Last night, this happened again and I put my finger near the vent hole to see if I could feel air coming out. I couldn't so I actually rubbed my finger accross the hole and all of a sudden a huge gush of air came out and continued for a long time. I was then able to add a lot more water and could hear a loud gurgle from the vent tube the rest of the time it was filling.

I have no idea what I did or why touching the vent hole would make a difference. Any ideas as to what is going on and how I can stop this from occurring in the future? We are going on a long weekend and I am going to need every bit of fresh water the tank will hold so I want to know if I am missing something here. Thanks for any help.
 
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:43 PM   #2
HamRad
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Drought Buster,
I don't know exactly how common this issue is but I have a similar situation with my fresh water fill. I bought a clear tube about a foot long that reaches down into the filler tube further than I can push the water hose. I still turn off the water several times while filling. When I stop putting water in I get a long out rush of air and a little bit of water. It takes maybe 3 or 4 times to get the tank full. I got tired of not knowing how much water I'd pumped in the tank so I bought a water activated gauge. It give me a rough idea of how much water I've put in the tank.

The place I got my gauge no longer sells them. Too bad because they are handy little gadgets.

By the way I learned of the out rush of air and water was a very wet experience! Needless to say I now stand to the side of the fill hole! Several people have reported that their air relief hose was kinked and thus not allowing much air to escape during the fill process. You might want to check that. Mine was not kinked but also not very effective.

Good luck. Dennis
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Old 07-19-2011, 01:50 PM   #3
bw2
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Maybe there was a bit of dirt or such and when you rubbed the screen on the hole the trapped air forced the rest of the dirt out and allowed the air to escape, as it should. My guess you are good to go now
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:51 AM   #4
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Thanks for the thoughts. I filled it again last night and the same thing happened at about 1/3 full. I heard water splashing on the ground so I went around and pulled the hose out. I got a big back splash of water from both the fill tube and the vent hole and then I could hear a lot of air rushing out of the vent. Waited for that to subside and put the hose back in and it filled the rest of the way just fine. I am starting to think that the vent tube is just too small and does not allow enough air to escape to account for the volume of water that the hose is pushing in the other end. I barely turned the hose on this time and I think it worked a little better. I am going to buy som tubing tonight to stick in the fill hole and see if that helps.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:04 AM   #5
pineranch
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OK, I'll bite! Does you unit have a fresh water fill valve in the convenience center? If so why not use it to fill the tank. It's full when water gushes out of the manual fill port at the left rear of the unit giving the neighbors a good chuckle at the chuckle head who forgot he was filling the fresh water tank.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:55 AM   #6
Captain Joe
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Your hose may be restricting the air flow. I'll bite, too, where is your fresh water fill valve?
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:34 AM   #7
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I am not sure what you mean by "fresh water valve"? I don't think I have a valve on the fresh water. The fresh water fill tube is immediatly to the right of the convenience center (maybe 7 or 8 inches away). Now that you mention it, the dealership guy did tell me that I could connect my fresh water hose to the convenience center to fill the fresh water tank. I recall asking him why anyone would ever do that when the fresh water fill tube is right next to it. He said he had no idea other than if you were at a site with full hook ups and at the end of the trip you wanted to add a little water to the tank for the ride home (wouldn't need to unhook the hose and move it to the fill tube). Didn't sound like anything I would ever use so I must have forgot about it. I will give that a try while leaving the cap off the fresh water fill tube (that should allow plenty of air to escape). But that assumes the fresh water hose at the state park will have a threaded hose connection. I assume they do. Thanks for the help.
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Old 07-20-2011, 06:53 AM   #8
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How interesting that you posted this yesterday!
Because today on our trip, I noticed that water was slowly trickling out of the door to the fresh water fill?! So I opened it and took off the cap and water was slowly coming OUT of the fill opening!
We have always been hooked to city water and don't even really use the fresh tank/pump but this seemed like it has to be the fresh tank being full to the point of coming out the fill opening.
Sure enough, the monitor shows the fresh tank as being full! The valve for normal flow/fill is in the correct position, so all I can figure is that the valve has at least partially failed and is allowing water to fill the tank unintentionally?
Any other ideas?
Sorry if this is a "hijack" of the OP thread, but I thought it was relevant due to the nature of the problem and the fact that we have the same model HC.
BTW, I turned off city water connection and am now using the pump/fresh water tank to draw down the level and avoid "overfilling".
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:09 AM   #9
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Or you can open the low point drain beneath the fresh water tank to drain it. I think I would drain it from below, leave the drain open, hook up to city water, and flip the fill switch a couple of times and see if there is still water coming out of the drain. Flipping the switch (valve) a couple of times might remove some contamination in the valve and allow it to close properly. If that fails then I agree you will need a new valve.
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:14 AM   #10
Phil P
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Hi

Now that some else has mentioned it.

In our water center located on the drivers side in the basement is a water hookup, black tank wash hookup, winterizing valves and a fresh water tank fill valve.

I used it for the first time last Sunday and found it works well. I did take the cap off of the manual fill port located on the driver’s side at the rear of the trailer just to make sure the tank was vented.

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Old 07-20-2011, 04:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by bncinwv

Or you can open the low point drain beneath the fresh water tank to drain it. I think I would drain it from below, leave the drain open, hook up to city water, and flip the fill switch a couple of times and see if there is still water coming out of the drain. Flipping the switch (valve) a couple of times might remove some contamination in the valve and allow it to close properly. If that fails then I agree you will need a new valve.
Bingo
Ya, I did try what I think is the low point drain. There are two white plastic valves in the "convenience center"...surprisingly one of them drained hot water? Didn't understand that at all. The other valve, when I opened that one only drained out a little bit and then the pump came on! Again, not understanding what happened there, unless those two valves are not the "low point" drains at all? I've never even turned the fill valve to the fill position before so it's hard to imagine the valve being compromised somehow.
Someone else suggested the check valve on the pump failing and allowing water to flow back into the fresh water tank. Sounds like a possibility...
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:27 PM   #12
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The low point drain for the fresh water tank is not in the convenience center, it is beneath the rig. The low point drains in the convenience center are for the rigs water system that uses the convenience center's city water connection.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:48 AM   #13
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OK, that makes sense but I've looked and cannot find any low point drain valve under the trailer!
Any tips on where to look? I assume the location would be model specific.
Side rant: how helpful would it be to have an OWNER'S MANUAL for the specific models!!
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Old 07-21-2011, 06:46 AM   #14
Phil P
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Hi

Ours is located on the driver side of the trailer and it is behind the front brace on the rear stabilizer. This makes it hard to see with the stabilizer down. It is white in color and has serrations on it so you can screw it off with your fingers. It is a cap on a pip not a plug in a hole. Ours is clamped to a flexible hose with a screw type clamp like you see on automobile water hoses.

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Old 07-21-2011, 06:46 AM   #15
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You might be able to isolate the location of the fresh water tank by looking at the plumbing beneath the rig. The black tank and the two gray tanks will have drains leading to the dump valve that should be visible beneath the rig. That will give you an indication of where those tanks are, any area left over should be about where the fresh water tank is located, the low point drain on ours only sticks down about an inch below the underbelly.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:23 PM   #16
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It looks likeb you have a High Country 333DB like ours. If so, the low point drain is on the drivers side rith where the super slide starts (so just back of the convenience center). It is two feet under the trailer so you can't see it unless you really get under there. It is just a white hose sticking stright down with a cap on the end.
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:43 AM   #17
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Thanks, I found it (low point drain) with the help from MOC forum as usual!
Now I just need to figure out why my fresh water tank is filling (slowly) all by itself.
All in all, the Monty HC came through our 3,500 mile west coast trip in fine fashion. Just a few minor issues like the fresh water tank, and a toilet valve that still won't close quite all the way.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:51 AM   #18
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Still no solution to my problem trying to get water into the fresh water tank through the fill spout. I can fill it to the top using the city water connection, but if I use the fill spout, it gets an air lock and no more water will go in after it is less than 2/3 full. If I blow into the fill spout, water will shoot back out followed by a whole lot of air as it gurgles for 30 seconds or so. Then I can add another 1/3 of a tank or so and I have to again blow into it to get it to "burp". This happens regardless of how slow I have the water coming out of the hose and whether I use a smaller hose. Taking it to the dealer after our next trip to see if he can figure this oput. Can't believe this is an issue on a brand new fifth wheel.
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:17 AM   #19
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Since it sounds like your rig is new, you may as well have them look at it AND fix it! Keep an eye on it, dealers are great at thinking they find something, then fixing the wrong thing just long enough to make it past the warranty. Fortunately, there are some "reputable" and more thorough dealers out there, but I seem not able to find those. You could get lucky.

I think the venting is good enough to start the fill, then the problem catches up with things and it fails. I have filled my tank plenty of times to know it's possible. Not so much any more since we exclusively have hookups and I now just carry 5-10 gallons for enroute stops on the way to our destination. But with a new rig, it's obvious there is a problem that needs to be fixed for the long term. My rig also didn't have a conveniences center and therefore it's less complicated and less plumbing.
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