Is WIFI Private? - Montana Owners Club

Montana_6099 · 08-13-2006, 02:17 PM

Hey everybody. My wife and I are going to be fulltiming in a park in Dotsero Colorado starting in 2 weeks to a month.

The park offers WIFI internet.

I like to do all of my banking online.

My question is this:

Once my PC is connected to the WIFI, is the data I transfer back and forth to the router at the campground secure?

I know that with WIFI at this campground, anyone can gain access to the network who is staying there.

Just wondering if I WIFI my online bill pay information is someone else going to see what I'm doing?

New owners of 2007 3400RL. 2005 Dodge 2500 Cummins HO, 38RE, BW Companion 5er hitch.

Broome101 · 08-13-2006, 02:22 PM

yes they can gain access, and yes they can get onto your system

Broome101
2005 F350 PSD,SRW,CC,LB, King Ranch, 4x4
2005 3685FL
http://www.picturetrail.com/broome101

Glenn and Lorraine · 08-13-2006, 02:25 PM

Whenever it was available, we used WiFi all the time and now we have our own WiFi router which can be accessed by anyone in a close proximity of our rig. and YES it is completely 100% safe. You may gain access and use to their WiFi but they CANNOT gain access to your computer.

Glenn
Montana Owners Home Page
RV Related Links

Glenn and Lorraine

M O C - 4 2 0

We are using a 2005 White GMC Sierra SLE 2500HD Extended Cab, Short Bed, 4X4
with the Duramax/Allison Combo and Firestone Ride-Rite air bags
to drag around our 2004 Montana 2955RL 32'
using a PullRite 16K SuperGlide Automatic Sliding Hitch

"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned,
so as to have the life that is waiting for us!"
You know you are retired when you wake up in the morning with
nothing to do and go to bed at night with it only half done.
BUT, Keep in mind, doing nothing can be a very
tiresome job because you can't stop to rest

Glenn and Lorraine · 08-13-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Broome101

yes they can gain access, and yes they can get onto your system

Sorry but not gonna happen!!!

Cat320 · 08-13-2006, 02:34 PM

What Glenn and Lorraine said. It performs the same function of any router except it has no wires or cables.

jrgwdenner · 08-13-2006, 02:44 PM

Glenn, have you not password protected your WiFi connection?

Judy
http://spaces.msn.com/bamatravelers/
http://bamatravelers.blogspot.com
Traveling with Glen and Greta in our 2004 Dodge dually and Montana 3380 RL

Montana_6099 · 08-13-2006, 03:06 PM

Okay, so if I send information over the WIFI (ie: sensitive information) no one will be able to intercept my individual "beam" of info and get my account numbers etc?

New owners of 2007 3400RL. 2005 Dodge 2500 Cummins HO, 38RE, BW Companion 5er hitch.

ols1932 · 08-13-2006, 03:09 PM

We do it all the time with WIFI and with our Verizon phone. The websites are secure.

Orv

jrgwdenner · 08-13-2006, 03:26 PM

We haven't had any trouble either. Do almost all our banking and bill paying on the WiFi system we have which is a router with the Verizon aircard, same as Glenn's.

Judy
http://spaces.msn.com/bamatravelers/
http://bamatravelers.blogspot.com
Traveling with Glen and Greta in our 2004 Dodge dually and Montana 3380 RL

Ozzie · 08-13-2006, 04:14 PM

Is traffic not subject to sniffers? I understand about secure sites, but what about prior to the site being secure, such as log in?

I'm very much interested in this and have not had wireless access outside of my own home wireless network which is encrypted and MAC addresses ok'd through my router, etc.

327RKS

sreigle · 08-13-2006, 04:35 PM

I also do our banking online. First, understand that a determined hacker of high quality can break into nearly any system, even the one sitting on your desk at home hooked to a phone line connected to the internet.

How easily they can do that depends. First, do you have a decent firewall on your system? I recommend the free ZoneAlarm. That helps reduce the potential for breaking into your system.

Is the park's wifi system security enabled? If so, that's one more level of protection, although a good hacker can get past that.

Are the websites you use for banking using encryption? Check for the padlock on the browser. That also helps. But, again, a good hacker can break that.

There are some other things that can be done, too, but, bottom line is that the odds of someone grabbing your info off the wifi system in the rv park are extremely slim. It can happen but it is slim. Slim enough I've never had a problem with anyone getting into my information and using it. Most hackers are going after bigger fish. I don't worry about it.

Glenn, yes, a good, dedicated hacker CAN break into your system. The odds are very, very small, that anyone would, however, try to get in via your wireless. Most attacks come directly from the web. A firewall, like ZoneAlarm, is imperative, in my opinion, whether on wifi, dsl, cable, or dialup.

See another Montana or Mountaineer on the road? Flash lights twice, it might be one of us!
Steve Reigle (pronounced Regal)
Fulltiming since 3/21/03
'03 3295RK
'05 Ford F250 SD Lariat CC SB 6.0L PSD/TS FX4 4x4

Our RV Travels (now Firefox-compatible)

Countryfolks · 08-13-2006, 06:24 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by JennyKraig

Hey everybody. My wife and I are going to be fulltiming in a park in Dotsero Colorado starting in 2 weeks to a month.

The park offers WIFI internet.

I like to do all of my banking online.

My question is this:

Once my PC is connected to the WIFI, is the data I transfer back and forth to the router at the campground secure?

I know that with WIFI at this campground, anyone can gain access to the network who is staying there.

Just wondering if I WIFI my online bill pay information is someone else going to see what I'm doing?

WIFI consists of radio signals, so, yes anybody can pick up the signal/data stream. As far as doing anything with the signal, that would depend on the points enumarated by Steve and the intent/skill of the individual seeing the data [it will be gibberish to most folks].

You can increase your safety margin by making sure your password[s] do not contain any personal information and are not in any dictionary, including foreign ones and contain numbers, upper and lower case letters, allowed punctuation marks and other characters and should be about 10+ characters in length. You should also change the more sensitive passwords periodically. Be sure file sharing is disabled also. Besides the padlock symbol, look for 'HTTPS' at the beginning of the address [URL] line. You might also consider conducting your business at random, varying times.

By all means get ZoneAlarm as Steve suggests, keep your antivirus program updated, and seriously consider getting a couple of anti-spyware programs if you haven't already. Or switch to Linux.

Skip

Skip and Mary
Black '04.5 Dodge 3500, CTD, 2x4, 48RE, LB, DRW, 3.73, LineX, AFE air filter, Donaldson muffler
'05 3500RL, TrailAir Pinbox

Ozzie · 08-13-2006, 06:48 PM

A search on Google about wireless security netted me a couple sites that have some good reads:

http://www.jiwire.com/top-wireless-t...ots-travel.htm

http://www.thatscamping.com/index.ph...-on-the-road1/

http://www.jiwire.com/hotspot-security.htm

I'm not trying to scare anyone here, but we all need to be informed to protect ourselves as best as we can.

327RKS

Ozz · 08-14-2006, 02:00 AM

Ozzie,
Thanks for going to the trouble of looking these sites up.
Ozz

'07 3400RL 2nd RTU
2 Golf Cart batteries 3,000 watt inverter, automatic transfer switch
Honda 2000 Generator, 2nd one and twinning kit coming
Maytag's with 220 Dryer
Stationary domed Sat. dish
LCD 12 Volt Amp gauge
LCD Tank Monitor
3 added 120 volt outlets
On Board Air; 12 Volt Viair 450C compressor
2006 Ford PSD 4x4 Off Road Lariat
Hadley Air Horns
Truck inverter with 110 volts for laptop
Color Backup Camera
Awning lock

Glenn and Lorraine · 08-14-2006, 04:57 AM

OK let me clarify my earlier post. Unless they are like Steve says, "a good, dedicated hacker CAN break into your system. The odds are very, very small, that anyone would, however, try to get in via your wireless." I should also add that in order for the ANY hacker to get in through my WiFi Connection he would have to do it during that short time frame that I am connected. Regardless of the type of connection, anyone that stays connected 24/7 is asking for trouble. I disconnect after each usage even if it's just a dinner break.
It is human nature that we all worry about things but sometimes we have a tendency to go overboard.
In the Army back in the 60's they told us not to believe anything we hear and only half of what we see. Of course that was long before the days of the Internet. Today that should read.."not to believe anything we hear and only half of what we see and less than 1% of what you see or read on the Internet." Having been involved in the Internet since the mid 90's. I have seen people worry about everything imaginable when it comes to these computers. They used to worry that just turning the puter on was dangerous to your health. That sending or receiving an email somehow gave the sender/receiver full access to your computer. About the only thing email will do to you is opening unknown attachments and getting a virus/worm. NEVER, EVER open an email attachment unless you are 150% sure about what it contains and 200% sure you know and can trust the sender. That you can contact a virus through someone's website. I surf the Internet for hours everyday and have yet to get a virus or anything else from someone else's web site. I won't even go into all the ridiculous stories I've heard about "cookies". Cookies WILL NOT hurt you in any way shape or form.

sreigle · 08-14-2006, 07:02 AM

If I may add to Glenn's post, if you are using Outlook Express, first turn off the pane that lets you view an email simply by single clicking/highlighting it. That's an open door to adware, spyware, trojans and virus.

In addition, when I receive an email I'm not sure is valid, I can rightclick on the email, select Properties. Select the Details tab, then the Message Source button. There you can look inside the email to see if it's one you want to open normally. You'll see all the headers in all their glory but scroll down to find the body of the message. It's not pretty but you can see if it's something you want. If all you see is a filename with "gif" as the extension and lots of gibberish after that, do NOT open that one normally. Gif is a common way of inserting problems into your system. Other email applications probably have something similar.

I also agree with Skip. Antispyware is important. I've tried several and some have not been as effective as I'd like. I'm currently using TrendMicro's antispyware and have been pleased with it. There are other good ones also. Do NOT rely on Windows' firewall. Use ZoneAlarm or other good firewall.

See another Montana or Mountaineer on the road? Flash lights twice, it might be one of us!
Steve Reigle (pronounced Regal)
Fulltiming since 3/21/03
'03 3295RK
'05 Ford F250 SD Lariat CC SB 6.0L PSD/TS FX4 4x4

Our RV Travels (now Firefox-compatible)

texdeano · 08-14-2006, 07:40 AM

Has anyone downloaded Hotspot shield that is supposed to protect you when using WI-FI.I have downloaded it but not used it as of yet so can't really say how go it is but it is a free download.It is from AncorFree.

2006 Montana 3670RL pulled with 2003 Ford F350 Duelly 7.3 turbo diesel

Glenn and Lorraine · 08-14-2006, 12:23 PM

Steve the file name .gif is an image (photo/graphic) file extension much like .jpg There is no way of attaching a virus to an image file as image files, by design, only contain the image, graphic or photo.

A short Glossary of image extensions--
.gif or gif89A- Graphics Interchange Format..A standard for digitised images compressed with the LZW algorithm, defined in 1987 by CompuServe (CIS).
.jpg or .jpeg - Joint Photographic Experts Group..The standard algorithm for the compression of digital images.
There are other graphic extensions but these 2 are by far the most popular.

The attachments you want to be careful with are executable files. Executable files are files that run programs on your computer. On Windows they are recognised by the extension .exe. However, .exe files are ALSO the most common type of file for emailing viruses, so next time you receive an attachment that ends .exe, make sure you know exactly what it is before you think about opening it.

Following is a partial list of Executable file extensions that should be considered suspicious when received in email and should not be opened unless you requested or expected the attachment:

ADE - Microsoft Access Project Extension
ADP - Microsoft Access Project
BAS - Visual Basic Class Module
BAT - Batch File
CHM - Compiled HTML Help File
CMD - Windows NT Command Script
COM - MS-DOS Application
CPL - Control Panel Extension
CRT - Security Certificate
DLL - Dynamic Link Library
DO* - Word Documents and Templates
EXE - Application
HLP - Windows Help File
HTA - HTML Applications
INF - Setup Information File
INS - Internet Communication Settings
ISP - Internet Communication Settings
JS - JScript File
JSE - JScript Encoded Script File
LNK - Shortcut
MDB - Microsoft Access Application
MDE - Microsoft Access MDE Database
MSC - Microsoft Common Console Document
MSI - Windows Installer Package
MSP - Windows Installer Patch
MST - Visual Test Source File
OCX - ActiveX Objects
PCD - Photo CD Image
PIF - Shortcut to MS-DOS Program
POT - PowerPoint Templates
PPT - PowerPoint Files
REG - Registration Entries
SCR - Screen Saver
SCT - Windows Script Component
SHB - Document Shortcut File
SHS - Shell Scrap Object
SYS - System Config/Driver
URL - Internet Shortcut (Uniform Resource Locator)
VB - VBScript File
VBE - VBScript Encoded Script File
VBS - VBScript Script File
WSC - Windows Script Component
WSF - Windows Script File
WSH - Windows Scripting Host Settings File
XL* - Excel Files and Templates

So if you get an email with an attached file such as Happy99.exe be very very leary of such an attachment.

If you do get such an attachment in an email you can check out the attachment at Threat Explorer - Symantec Corp.

One last thing...I am far from an expert on this subject but I do know what has kept my 'puter virus free all these years. Email me any of the above executable files and they will be deleted immediately. If you have a need to send me such a file contact me before sending and only email the file when you get my OK. That may sound a bit strange but like I said previously, since the mid 90s I have had only one virus. That was in 1999 and the virus was called Happy99. Once I got rid of that one I vowed I would never be hit again.
I have no problems with .gif or .jpg

sreigle · 08-14-2006, 05:01 PM

Glenn, I'm very familiar with GIF, including the animation variety. But I have to respectfully disagree with you.

Single pixel gifs set to transparent, and thus apparently invisible, can trigger things you wouldn't think a gif can do. You are correct it's not really the gif itself but it serves as the trigger for the surrounding html and that's why I won't open an email with a gif from anyone I don't know and why I look for GIF when peeking into suspicious emails. While these may be invisible while reading the email they are visible when peeking as I described in the other post.

For instance, this is a quote from this website -

-------------
http://www.brettglass.com/spam/paper.html

Invasion of Privacy and DoS attacks via E-mail
E-mail may also contain exploits that compromise the recipient's privacy or render his or her system unusable. An HTML message containing an image tag will cause many e-mail clients to retrieve the image automatically when the mail is read. If the recipient's e-mail address (or any other unique identifier) is included in the image tag (e.g. [img]http://images.spammer.com/picture.jpg?clueless@newbie.com]), a spammer can determine from his or her Web server logs that the address is valid and that the mail was opened. Such an image tag is sometimes called a "mail bug." Because the image will be retrieved via HTTP, the server may also be able to place a cookie on the recipient's machine if browser software is used to display the mail. (The most popular e-mail clients all use browser software to render mail. Outlook, Outlook Express, and AOL use Microsoft Internet Explorer; Netscape Communicator uses Netscape Navigator; Opera uses its own internal HTML rendering software; and Eudora uses Internet Explorer unless explicitly configured not to do so.) The user may not know that any invasion of privacy has taken place, especially if the image is a "clear GIF" or "Web bug." An e-mail message may also contain active content exploits which extract personal information from the recipient's computer.
-----------------

And here's another. http://www.malwarehelp.org/know-about-malware.html

Web bug or Web beacons

Also called a Web bug or a pixel tag or a clear GIF. Used in combination with cookies, a Web beacon is an often-transparent graphic image, usually no larger than 1 pixel x 1 pixel, that is placed on a Web site or in an e-mail that is used to monitor the behavior of the user visiting the Web site or sending the e-mail. When the HTML code for the Web beacon points to a site to retrieve the image, at the same time it can pass along information such as the IP address of the computer that retrieved the image, the time the Web beacon was viewed and for how long, the type of browser that retrieved the image and previously set cookie values.
-----------

See another Montana or Mountaineer on the road? Flash lights twice, it might be one of us!
Steve Reigle (pronounced Regal)
Fulltiming since 3/21/03
'03 3295RK
'05 Ford F250 SD Lariat CC SB 6.0L PSD/TS FX4 4x4

Our RV Travels (now Firefox-compatible)

Countryfolks · 08-14-2006, 06:16 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by texdeano

Has anyone downloaded Hotspot shield that is supposed to protect you when using WI-FI.I have downloaded it but not used it as of yet so can't really say how go it is but it is a free download.It is from AncorFree.

It's a vpn program, which is good. You'll be going through their servers which may become a choke point if they get heavy use. You still need to have the secure connection [padlock/HTTPS] on your browser URL to the bank and the other recommended safeguards in place.

Skip

Skip and Mary
Black '04.5 Dodge 3500, CTD, 2x4, 48RE, LB, DRW, 3.73, LineX, AFE air filter, Donaldson muffler
'05 3500RL, TrailAir Pinbox

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