Shakels renforced - Montana Owners Club

sailer · 08-18-2009, 04:32 PM

Well I took the 5th wheel to a mach shop to have the schakels renforced,, we backed up all 4 schakels with a flat iron 1/4 thick on the back of the back units and the front of the front units, then i had them install 1 gussett in the center of each 3 7/8 " down and 6" long to be welded to the frame to stop the shearing of the shakels.. that was $90.00 so then i had them fix the 1 1/4 " trailer hitch to cary bikes as it wobels so they used 1/4 x 2" flat iron at a angle up from the hitch conection at the out side of the unit to the bike rack about 16" up on the post... all bolted on so its removable.. now the bike rack is solid ,,,keystone is trying to get by cheep but its going to hurt them in a few years as the hitch falls off from shaking sailer

CRUZIN 2 · 08-19-2009, 04:43 AM

sailer

That is a good idea I think Keystone should be doing this right at first. They are making the rigs heavier but not beefing up the shackle brackets, and the cost would be very little.

I'm in the process of putting in the Dexter E-Z Flex on, done with one side, and I can see what you mean about beefing them up.

Can you please post some pic's?

Tom S. · 08-19-2009, 05:12 AM

Let me preface this with "yes it's a problem and should be addressed", lest anyone jump onto my case. But.....

I don't think the solution is a simple as it may sound. Making the shackle mounts out of thicker steel would extend them past the frame on each side. Would this be an issue? I don't know, I'm not an engineer (nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn last night!). If it would work, it would certainly be the cheapest and easiest solution.

The best solution would be to make them boxed, but this poses manufacturing issues. Extra pieces would have to be welded on in separate operations, or a custom die built to stamp them out, which would be quite expensive.

The MorRyde brace system would certainly help, but to do all the mounts would be very expensive.

When it comes to fixing a problem, one major thing to remember is cost. There are a lot of problems that some people have and a few problems that everyone has. For example, out of the thousands of members on this board, only a few have reported this type of failure, where as shackle bolts seem to be effecting everyone. If Keystone fixed every problem reported here, it would add significantly to the cost of the trailer. For instance, if thicker brackets did work, it would probably add $30 or more in cost. Chicken feed, I know, but when you add all the other issues, like wet bolts, the prices start to climb. In which case, manufacturers have two options: eat the cost and lower their profitability or pass the cost on to the consumer. You can guess which one happens. Some of us would gladly pay the extra cost, some would not. And new buyer without experience or knowledge most likely would look elsewhere.

I know none of this helps the problem at hand, but I'm just trying to explain why a manufacturer doesn't jump through hoops to fix every reported problem. Most manufactures (outside of China) are cognizant that they have to provide a quality product for a fair price, while making a profit.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

HamRad · 08-19-2009, 06:41 AM

Sailer,
I'm in need of some clarification please. Did you reinforce the hangers for the springs and shackles or did you beef up the shackles themselves? Could you post some pictures for those of us who can only understand visual stuff?

Thanks,
HamRad

KTManiac · 08-19-2009, 07:05 AM

HamRad,

Pretty sure he is talking about the spring hangers on the frame, and closing in one end of each. The end opposite from which way the spring exits the hanger.

Exnavydiver · 08-19-2009, 07:15 AM

Yes John, how about some pictures... Dave

HamRad · 08-19-2009, 08:45 AM

KTManiac,
OK. I sort of figured that was the deal but I get confused really easily.

Carl should be posting soon with the results of his dealing with this hanger issue. Perhaps he'll have some pics to share.

Thanks for the info.

Travel safely,
Dennis

Searchers · 08-19-2009, 08:52 AM

Service Advisory #00-8 issued in Oct. 2000 covered possible spring hanger to frame rail attachment problems on early model rigs. I had the work done on mine as soon as I got the notice. I have the original paperwork and will take pictures of the retrofit installation on my rig right away. HamRad, I may need assistance in getting the pictures posted. Can you help with that if I e-mail them to you?

Don

HamRad · 08-19-2009, 10:23 AM

Don,
Send the pictures. Be glad to help out.

Dennis

sailer · 08-19-2009, 05:19 PM

I can take the pictures but have to have someone i can e-mail to too post as i don't know how ,or john kohl will take pictures at the goshen rally , as after the rally i am having the wet bolts installed at mor-ryde for $287.00 installed pluse they are installing the spreader cross member on the center of the mor-ryde for $160.00 plus $34.50 for laber so a total cost of these 2 items $481.50 for all and i am not a mechanic, but a carpenter and i can't nail in steel...sailer,, i feal boxing in the ends of the shakel was a big plus then adding the 6" angle brace is a must but its all 1/4" stock , so its heavy enough,,sailer

HamRad · 08-19-2009, 07:17 PM

Don,
I've got them ready. They will be in my Picasa Albums. The link will take you directly to them. I hope! Great pictures by the way.

Don's pictures of Fix for Suspension Hangers.

Dennis

HamRad · 08-19-2009, 07:58 PM

Don,
Here is a link to the actual Service Advisory.

Keystone Service Advisory

It was originally in TIFF format. But I didn't know how to get that into the post.

Dennis

KTManiac · 08-19-2009, 09:35 PM

That is some nice work on Don's hangers, but damn, those hangers look about 3 times taller than the ones on my '09! No wonder they needed reinforcing to be safe.

sailer's rework on the hangers has to be a lot less involved than Don's, but I think it probably is a good thing to beef them up to get a lot of peace of mind for not too much $$$. I look at the stock configuration, and just shake my head. $10 of steel and 15 minutes of welding at Lippert, and nobody would ever have had to worry about their hangers failing.

nunya · 08-20-2009, 02:44 AM

looks as if the letter is dated the year 2000? what is up with this? what years does this affect?

dsprik · 08-20-2009, 06:41 AM

I have a 2007 3400 and I don't believe this affects me...

KTManiac · 08-20-2009, 08:33 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by nunya

looks as if the letter is dated the year 2000? what is up with this? what years does this affect?

Don's rig is a '99.

Since the Service Advisory is dated 2000, you could safely assume that anything newer than 2001 model would not have that particular issue. Although, I don't feel that the newer hangers are beefy enough to be fully comfortable with in light of some reported failures recently.

I probably take my Montana over more iffy terrain, tight fits, jockeying, & turns than 99% of owners of rigs this large, so I will be looking into reinforcing the hangers soon. So, let's see what sailer's welding job is all about. When are you going to post some pics?!?!

Searchers · 08-20-2009, 08:35 AM

The advisory was sent to me in Oct. 2000. It included detailed instructions plus roadside & curbside diagrams for Montana model #'s 2750, 2850, 3150, 3250, 3255, 3350 & 3450. The advisory states, "It has been determined that a defect may exist with the attachment of the axle spring hangers to the frame rails on some Lippert frames affecting some Montana fifth wheels. This defect could cause the axle hangers to come loose from the frame rails. Therefore the following retrofit is being issued."

Although no problems were found on my 1999 2850RK upon inspection, I got authorization from from Keystone to have the retrofit kit sent to and installed by an independent RV repair shop. I inspect the suspension before each trip and to date have had no problems.

KTManiac...My spring hangers are 5-1/2" tall

Nunya & Dave...the advisory mentioned model #'s only, not specific years. I assume they made some changes on the production line to correct the problem after Oct. 2000. Because of the recent posts members have made regarding shackle hanger problems and possible remedies, I thought I'd post what I did to mine as an example.

I sent HamRad the advisory and installation diagrams (4 pages) and pictures of my 1999 2850K to post. He's having a problem getting pages 2-4 of the advisory/installation posted.

Don

CRUZIN 2 · 08-20-2009, 09:20 AM

Thanks for the pic's, that was what I was looking for, it looks like you beefed it up the way it should be. I believe the last upgrade was the larger frame, but stayed with the lighter hangers.

richfaa · 07-21-2013, 02:53 PM

I do recall a problem in the early models and I mean early models. There have been hanger failures reported here but the conditions under which they failed have not been well documented. We did not feel the suspension on our 06 3400 with 6K axles was sufficient for the use we put the camper to and had the MorRyde IS suspension system installed in the second year of ownership. Keystone changed to 7K shortly after we purchased. IMO the Mor Ryde IS suspension should be a least a option. Other brands have that option. It is not cheap but many of us would choose that option. The difference is night and day.
We may do it on the 2013 3402 big Sky.Had it been a option I would have purchased it.

dieselguy · 07-21-2013, 05:26 PM

Another issue of "note worthiness" is that a real word?? Anyways the early Montanas didn't have real I Beam frames ... simply 3 pieces of steel welded together to form an I Beam and I don't mean continuous welds either. I owned a 2000, so I know ... I never could figure out how welding 3 pieces of steel together could be cheaper than just going with an I Beam. I too had the recall back when ... mine consisted of angle iron welded onto the sudo I Beam above all the spring hangers as well as a bit of beefing up the hangers themselves. The frames have changed a lot since then, so newer Montana owners shouldn't have that particular issue on the worry list.

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