Check Your Spring Shackels - Montana Owners Club

daneboy · 10-19-2009, 06:27 PM

When torquing the whells, I found the right rear spring shackel hanging loose. The front of the spring is up against the underbelly, with the bolt still in the spring. I'm having all the shakels and bushings replaced next week.
Jerry

HamRad · 10-19-2009, 08:36 PM

Daneboy,
Sorry to hear about the shackles but this item has been front and center for the last year or so! Got to keep an eye on those things. If you're interested in seeing what others have been through then do a search and see what pops up.

HamRad

Art-n-Marge · 10-19-2009, 08:42 PM

Are you getting the heavy duty "wet shackles"? I did this over a year ago, and I am having a problem that the new shackle zerk fittings on the wet shackles are not accepting grease. Make sure you have the zerks put on correctly. It's easy to mess this up, but there are plenty of members who have the technical knowledge and what to look for.

While you are in the area you might want to check the U-bolts on both axles, too. On many of our rigs, they've worked themselves loose. In fact, I don't believe anyone who has checked had them correct. There was always one or two loose with most of us with 4 or more (I had 5 loose). We had guessed on about 60-65 lbs torque is proper, but according to one of the attendees at a recent Rally that had a Suspension representative the word was that 70 lbs is the recommendation.

Someone please confirm.

8e3k0 · 10-20-2009, 04:32 AM

Art, for grade 5 in 1/2 inch fine thread bolts there is a band for torquing of 60 to 70 foot lbs. Considing that you have a good quality torque wrench (click type) I see no problem in setting the limit to 70 foot lbs. I have at least another 2000 miles on my Monty since torquing the u-bolts and will check this weekend again and expect no movement when I put the torque wrench on. If there is more torquing needed then the bolts have been stretched and need to be replaced.

8e3k0 · 10-20-2009, 06:23 AM

Some good info on springs and u-bolts by Eaton, Detroit Spring, Inc.
at:
http://www.eatonsprings.com/ubolttorques.htm

8.1al · 10-20-2009, 03:16 PM

All of the nuts on my u-bolts were just fine. I'm with 8e3ko if the nuts are loose again after being correctly torqued I would consider replacing the u-bolts.

RCN.Stoker · 10-21-2009, 10:11 AM

Thanks for the link 8e3k0. I have to say again that this site has more information than a stack of manuals. It is a 5th wheel "Wiki" at your fingertips. I sometimes search on a topic even when I am not having a problem. It is amazing what you can learn. Hats off to the founders, moderators and the members that take the time to share with each other and us initiates. "Bravo Zulu" to all.

jackel1959 · 10-21-2009, 04:58 PM

Good info 8e3k0 and easy, straight forward reading. Thanks again for the link.
Jack

daneboy · 10-22-2009, 06:04 PM

Thanks for all the info and sites. I'll be torquing my U bolts as well.
Jerry

grampachet · 10-22-2009, 08:21 PM

Isn't there reason to be concerned with the higher end of the torque that is mentioned? Aren't those specs for the grade 5 - 1/2 in bolt as mentioned. Wouldn't there be a different spec for a U-bolt that surrounds a tube (axle) that is susceptible to bending? This is just a question with no scientific data to back it up. It seems to me like that much torque could put a bend or at least a dent in the axle.

richfaa · 10-23-2009, 02:42 AM

That Torque is what Dexter said at the fall rally..

8e3k0 · 10-23-2009, 03:51 AM

Go to any Dexter, or Detroit spec sheet with torque values for u-bolts and that is what is required. Just retorqued mine last night with a good quality click torque wrench and all bolts were at 70 foot pounds. There should be no reason to be concerned as with metal you would have to go to a "yield point" where metal starts to distort and stretch. If you did a test that would likely be at the 100 to 120 foot pound area for grade 5 tensile on any bolt type.

Tom S. · 10-23-2009, 04:55 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by grampachet

Isn't there reason to be concerned with the higher end of the torque that is mentioned? Aren't those specs for the grade 5 - 1/2 in bolt as mentioned. Wouldn't there be a different spec for a U-bolt that surrounds a tube (axle) that is susceptible to bending? This is just a question with no scientific data to back it up. It seems to me like that much torque could put a bend or at least a dent in the axle.

You need to remember that the torque isn't transferred to one point on the u-bolt/axle, it's distributed around the curve of both. Also, torquing 2 nuts to 70 lbs does not put 140 lbs of pressure on the axle, it only puts 70 lbs, and 70 lbs on a component that is rated to carry 6,000 lbs is a mere drop in the bucket. I would be willing to bet the bolt would fail (either strip the threads or break) long before the tube bent.

blarkman · 10-23-2009, 05:41 AM

Why are the nuts coming loose, are they not lock nuts? I believe the shackle bolts have shoulders so you should not be able to compress the shackle or distort them. As there are some comments about ubolts, do they not use lock nuts also?? we used to use deep nuts on the ubolt to prevent them from coming loose. The Montana is a light use vehicle and has a disclaimer that this unit is not to be used as a fulltime, guess that is why we do not have a heavy duty suspension system. The bushings are only good for about 7000 miles and that is why they wear out so fast.
bob

The Oldguard · 10-23-2009, 07:41 AM

Here is the "Dexter Axle" maintenance manual.

look at page 59

8e3k0 · 10-23-2009, 07:51 AM

We have changed out many u-bolt applications on truck and trailers and have never found any u-bolt nuts that have backed off to become loose. You will never collapse the axle tube; the u-bolt threads or nut threads will strip before any other failure. We have put this to test in the past. Once torqued to specifications they establish and remain home. The majority of these applications are with grade 8 u-bolts or better and heat treated long nuts with a heat treated washer ( not a lock washer) under this nut that will not distort. On the dexter axles most original have a fine thread nut 1/2 inch that is held in place by a nut with a flange, no washer, and this flange is supposed to lock it in place. Most after market replacement nuts are of the long type, heat treated, and you must use a continuous washer (not a lock washer) under them to prevent damage to the plate.
Yes, these suspension systems are light duty even if they are 7000 lb ratings, that's why it is very important to maonitor all suspension parts each time prior to a long trip. Glad I don't have to do this with our trucks and other trailers!!

richfaa · 10-23-2009, 07:59 AM

I have been waiting forever to say this.... Those are only "recommendations and guidelines and not legal requirements. We need not pay any attention to them..just like that tag on the door of our trucks...

I could not help it.....

Tom S. · 10-23-2009, 08:40 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by The Oldguard

Here is the "Dexter Axle" maintenance manual.

look at page 59

Didn't your Pappy teach you that REAL men don't read manuals or instructions?!

Just ask my wife!

grampachet · 10-23-2009, 09:37 AM

OK, good, now I know. Thanks for your answers.

The Oldguard · 10-23-2009, 07:26 PM

[quote]quote:Originally posted by Tom S.

Quote:

Originally posted by The Oldguard

Here is the "Dexter Axle" maintenance manual.

look at page 59

Didn't your Pappy teach you that REAL men don't read manuals or instructions?!

Nope, My "MA" told me that when all else fails read the ---- manual
Now go to bed

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