GMC 2500 HD Diesel Towing Capacity?

[exav8tr]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

In terms of the front and rear axle rating exceeding the GAWR..Example My GVWR is 13K front axle 6K..rear axle 9K that is 15K??? those numbers mean you can not exceed 6K on the front or 9K on the rear..but NOT to exceed 13L GVWR.. Our truck has the snowplow package and the camper package ..hence the numbers.

When a person asks a question regarding weight issues it should be our responsibility to give that person the facts regarding the issue no matter what our personal opinion is or what truck we choose to pull with instead of trying to justify to him that it is ok to pull because we are. IMO if most folks did the homework or knew how to do the home work they would purchase a bigger truck or a smaller camper. Payload/cargo capacity/ Pin weight in almost never mentioned by salesmen, and miss understood or not known by most.

While I agree with the above statement about providing factual information to a newcomer to this forum I also believe in speaking in practical terms by providing our opinions, then let the individual make their own choices. As some of you may remember, I had a ¾ ton Chevy upon leaving Alaska. I added an extra leaf spring and later added air bags. The spring shop told me the extra spring would add 1000 lbs to the payload but the air bags would only level the load, keep the bed from bottoming out and make for a smoother ride for your trailer. I have since upgraded to a one ton dually, my choice, after doing my homework and towing for a year. If 80% of RVers haul overweight, then why don’t we hear of people being penalized for doing so? I also do not believe in all the talk of legal issues incurred by towing overweight. Upon asking this question of two different members of the legal profession, they both agreed that the prosecutor would have to PROVE that being overweight was the actual cause of the accident; they also stated that about the only way this would happen would be going down a hill and ramming someone from behind because you could not stop. Every time we talk about this subject I hear all the Urban Legend about pecuniary liability. Let’s not scare everyone into buying a class 8 truck to pull their trailer. Personal experiences should count for something, if nothing more than adding an experienced opinion.

[jwedell]

Adding air bags reduces your carrying capacity rating by the weight of the air bags.

[bigmurf]

quote:Originally posted by jwedell

Adding air bags reduces your carrying capacity rating by the weight of the air bags.

What if you fill the air bags with Helium? g

[TLightning]

In summary, as stated on here before...a weight issue is like a pregnancy issue...you are either within weight or over weight...pregnant or not pregnant, there is no in between.

[Art-n-Marge]

This has been a great discussion, but does anyone remember the original topic? I think some dude wanted to buy a 3/4 ton or a 1 ton. He decided on a 1 ton. We should be done now, but let's go for a record on Topic replies.

So I have figured out that I should use helium in the airbags, helium in the TV/RV tires, helium in the Moryde pin bags, helium in the air shocks and helium to power through my turbocharger. I wish I could find a way to suck helium through my air filter, too. The more helium the better at lightening the load, eh? So I will have a lighter load and can now I can say my truck will scream because Helium does that, doesn't it, My diesel truck will sound like a trumpet playing a high C note?

Yeah baby, Party City will never know what hit them. The price of Helium will skyrocket. I better call my finance guy and tell him of my new commodity investment strategy.

[Caseclosed]

This is out of the Chevrolet 2005 C2500 H.D. owners manual page 4-79 Fifth wheel kingpin weight should be 15% to 25% of the trailer weight up to 3,000 lb maximum kingpin weight, but don't exceed the GCWR. ""The 1 ton is 3,500 lbs."" I also talked to a CHP truck inforsement officer and he said the kingpin weight can be up to 3,000 lbs as it is attached to the frame of the truck. But you can't exceed the GCWR or the the max trailer weight.

[2 Sinks]

What a great discussion this has been...lots of good advice and facts/figures to back up all the different opinions.I'm glad the original poster has decided to choose a truck meeting the requirements to safely tow their trailer.

After looking on several trailer transport sites I have found they have strict requirements as to the type of tow vehicle allowed for contract towing.My first 2006 Dodge diesel 3/4 ton qc 4x4 shortbed truck did "not" meet the required spec to contract haul.On the flipside our current tow vehicle a 2006 Dodge diesel 3500 1 ton lwb 4x4 dually does meet requirements.Go figure...these are the people that transport/haul for a living.

As for MSRP cost difference between the 3/4 and 1 ton Dodges I've mentioned we're looking at $2,590.00 total.I have each window sticker on my desk for comparison.Both are the SLT package.We bought the 336RLT Mountaineer 10 months after the truck purchase and didn't have a 5ver hitch at the time.After haggling for six days the trailer deal was verbally made.Before I signed the deal and before any money was exchanged I specifically told them they would have to transport the trailer to my house which they agreed to.After the PDI I was told the transporter with the 1 ton dually was ready to hitch up and follow me home.End of story.

[Art-n-Marge]

That's a good start Caseclosed. The other thing to consider after hitching up the trailer and assuming it's less than 3,000 lbs, one must also ensure that the Rear Axle Weight Rating is not exceeded when measured at the rear wheels and with the trailer is hitched. When someone starts adding cargo in the truck bed and passengers and things in the cab, this can add to the RAWR. This is the most common problem with 3/4 tons and 5ers and where exceeding ratings occurs.

As Jwedell pointed out adding air bag hardware will add weight but probably no more than 20 lbs (for my kit anyway) including bags, brackets, hardware, pump, controller wires and tubing, nevertheless it's added weight.

Someone mentioned to the contrary in a previous reply in this topic, but I shall restate, air bags DO NOT increase your GVWR. I have rechecked and at least Firestone states unequivocable in a red asterisk statement - DO NOT EXCEED YOUR VEHICLES GVWR. It only improves the ridePlease, show me a product link that increases GVWR for airbags or other RIDE IMPROVEMENT devices and I will stop this stance, but I have NEVER seen this. Only changing actually frame or structures will do it and ride improvements do not fall into this category.

[richfaa]

No, No, No I did not say the front wheels came off the ground. I said they would come off the ground if not for the air bags and The post was referring to a previous truck.Which BTW was 1/2 ton truck.
Remember Rv'ers are NOT subject to any weight laws. If we were required to be weighed and the trucks listed numbers were the guidelines..many of us would be in big trouble. As any commerical driver knows..if you don't pay attention to the weight laws, the real weight police will getcha... I know of no Central data collection point for accidents or lawsuits involving Rv's as there are for commercial drivers. Ask the question of your insurance company. If I get a ticket even tho I may be driving the Honda Acord that infomation goes into the NTSB data base because I have CDL.
The purpose of these discussions is to educate and increase awareness.If the individual has no vehicle they should have the information to allow them to make the proper choice. If they have one they should be aware of all of the ratings and spec's allowing them to take proper action, if any.

BTW.. Today, right now..On the Ford Build your own truck site...Same truck F-350 SWD...F-250 Both CC,LB,4X4, Diesel. 3:73diff

F-350 51,640 F-250...50,990 a difference of 650.00 check it out..

That MAY support the claim that the only difference is heavier springs.. A Good set of airbags cost about That much(installed)

[SlickWillie]

quote:Originally posted by Art-n-Marge

Someone mentioned to the contrary in a previous reply in this topic, but I shall restate, air bags DO NOT increase your GVWR. I have rechecked and at least Firestone states unequivocable in a red asterisk statement - DO NOT EXCEED YOUR VEHICLES GVWR. It only improves the ridePlease, show me a product link that increases GVWR for airbags or other RIDE IMPROVEMENT devices and I will stop this stance, but I have NEVER seen this. Only changing actually frame or structures will do it and ride improvements do not fall into this category.

So, you do understand what happens when we overload our truck. The rear springs sag, and your headlights shine in the sky. How does adding airbags not increase load capacity? That statement confuses me. You can carry that same overload now and your truck sits level. Perhaps you are referring to the GVWR on the door sticker? I wouldn't look for any site to condone adding airbags to achieve greater load capacity; first accident, they would immediately be a target for law suits. They sell the product; you take the chance if you want to overload.

[indy roadrunner]

Let's see. An official poll taken on this forum that closed May 20, 2008 had the following:
3/4 pullers = 341
1 Ton pullers = 294
Larger that 1 ton 16

And in the 1 ton catagory you should see the difference between dulley's and SWD.
Now with these figures in mind - should give you some idea on how controversal this topic can be.

[richfaa]

Many folks pulling with the 3/4 ton are within all ratings and spec's of the truck for the camper they are pulling. The statement that many make that you need a 1 ton to pull any 5th wheel or any 5th wheel over 10K is just not true. The pin weight/ cargo capacity is most usually the difference and pin weight/ cargo capacity is miss understood/ overlooked and rarely defined by the RV manufacturer or salesperson.
I wonder how many folks would have went to the bigger truck if they had a better understanding of that. I have said many times we have a dually because we needed one. We would much rather have the SWD F-350, Since he only difference is a spring, than the big butt dually. We have been there done that some years ago when we purchased a 1/2 ton instead of a 3/4 ton because we listened to the "there is not that much difference, it will pull it fine" crowd then struggled for several years with a minimal truck adding aibags, shocks, etc because we could
not afford another truck. There were not forums around back then or I might have learned something.

[TLightning]

quote:Originally posted by Caseclosed

This is out of the Chevrolet 2005 C2500 H.D. owners manual page 4-79 Fifth wheel kingpin weight should be 15% to 25% of the trailer weight up to 3,000 lb maximum kingpin weight, but don't exceed the GCWR. ""The 1 ton is 3,500 lbs."" I also talked to a CHP truck inforsement officer and he said the kingpin weight can be up to 3,000 lbs as it is attached to the frame of the truck. But you can't exceed the GCWR or the the max trailer weight.

That's more confusion caused by GM. What they don't tell you is that the only 2500 HD that can take 3,000# of PW is the gas model truck. When you consider the weight of the D/A combo, you delete that nearly 1,000# from the cargo capacity. To add to the problem, the 2005 Chevy with the gas engine has a GCWR of 16,000...the weight of some of the new Montanas ALONE!

[Kabrys]

Thanks for all the info on ratings and towing info. I have not purchased the Montana yet. I do have a 3/4 ton GMC Diesel 4x4. My original request was as follows; " We are considering buying a Montana 3665RE (2009)5th Wheel and seem to be getting conflicting weights from different sales people and Montana brochures. We are trying to establish if our GMC 2500 HD 4x4 short Box, Crew Cab with a Duramax Diesel 6.6 turbo with the Allison Transmission is capable of pulling and STOPPING the 11,875 lb. rv? It would be great to hear from someone who might have the same TV & 5th wheel and get their input. Thanks " It seems that it is capable but over the safety margin I feel comfortable with. I guess I am going to have to find a lighter 5th wheel or wait until I get a heavier truck. Thanks again. ( We presently have an Outback 281FRLS but really need something bigger)

[richfaa]

That is good thinking Kabrys.Everything will work out for the best.

[cmawendy]

We have a 2008 3665RE and we pull ours with a 2003 Dodge 2500 diesel 4x4, and have no problems what so ever. We do have a chip in it and the pak power brake. Love the 3665RE.

[farmboy]

Seams to me after reading all the post about tv's and trailers the ones that have mods, chips, air bags, and such must be overloaded in the first place.

[richfaa]

OH Nooooooooo.

[Desert RVer]

It would seem to me that those who have 3/4 ton trucks that are fully under GVWR and GCWR but over on pin weight may have a legitimate reason to just beef up the rear springs with added components rather than go to the expense of buying a 1 ton SRW or 1 Ton dually. Different strokes for different folks.

[richfaa]

That would be the logical and most cost effective choice...