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Old 12-07-2012, 12:57 PM   #21
RJI47
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Rich, that was a good article, thanks for sharing.
It's true, most people complain about the negative issues they have with their rigs,and don't generally mention the positive things. The good thing about this forum is that it gives everyone a chance to see what others are saying, good or bad, and affords the opportunity to ask questions about how to do things, etc. The more u use thr forum, the more likely you are to speak up for the good and the bad things that occur. JMHO
 
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:01 AM   #22
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When prospective buyers of any brand ask about durability, I always answer the same; anyone who owns an RV should be handy, as these things survive an earthquake every time you move them. They still hold up very well but occasionally need some attention. Like owning a home or car, sometimes need service. Do your homework, research, buy what you find to be the best for your needs, but I don't think you will find perfection.
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:32 AM   #23
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That is far to logical of a reply Larry..But a good one.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:38 AM   #24
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X2. Well said.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:42 PM   #25
Rob Walters
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Well, BB Tex, I have done nothing but brag about my Montana since I bought it. Yes, I've had problems just like most everyone else, but for the most part these are things that are gonna happen no matter what. Propane regulator gone bad, limit switch on the furnace and stuff like that. My problem is now my friends have told me they're tired of hearing about my Montana and want me to shut up about it. (???????) I'm pretty sure I won't get that kind of disrespect from MOC members. I love my Monty and I'm very thankful for a group like this. Ya'll are GREAT and I love the idea of being able to share my experiences and gain knowledge from ya'll.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:35 AM   #26
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Kaltookian and Mack know a lot about building margins.
When the customer base becomes reliable enough to reduce cost in production, they will take advantage and exploit this market loyalty.
The reputation of being a 'bestseller' can be even more powerful than the true value proposition that got them there. They will 'ride' this reputation while moving away from quality to reduce cost as long as the demand pays out.

This is the scenario that gets companies run by young, clueless., short-sighted managers into class-action lawsuits. Systems thinkers with maturity of thought in the sustainability of their place in the market would realize the small investment and important payoff of keeping EVERY customer happy. The word of mouth destruction of reputation over a 300.00 recliner or a couple of hours of labor is the perfect example of what the short-sighted simple-minded attitude about cost-cutting can do. When you take care of me you sell 10 more units to some of my retired friends and family.

And if they are not taking every advantage of fixing every defect in their manufacturing and supply chain, based on these VALUABLE complaints, reputation will certainly begin to falter.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:19 AM   #27
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Well here is a prospective from a one who has owned two Montana's. A 06 3400 and now a 2013 Big Sky. We used the 06 3400 hard and put over 60K miles on it travelling all over the country. We had problems a few big ones and many small ones.Frame flex, 5 bad holding tanks. Those peeling and shrinking decals.Cabinet drawers that fell off. Suspension that fell apart but all in all it served us well.

This 2013 3402 Big sky is a much better unit. Better insulation, better fitting slides. They both however share one thing. The assembly line workmanship has not improved much if at all.We still find loose screws and bolts, improperly installed doors, hinges loose little things that indicate poor supervision, training and quality control on the assembly line. IMO what they have is a high quality product built by workman who are not properly qualified to build it. It is a condition that applies with all manufacturers regardless of brand or cost.

Many of us do not treat these things well... 65 % of all rigs weighed are over weight and that is a documented stat. Most of us run over the tire ratings and over the speed limit.Many of us run on OEM tires that we know are subject to failure. Those of us that are high end users have more problems than low end users and the manufacturers build these thing for the majority user and that is not the high end user. The manufactiurers IMO will not change and nor will the average user.

I do hold Montana's feet to the fire and have them correct every problem big and small and they do without issue.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:52 AM   #28
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...yep, poor QA/QC on the assembly line, another defect in the 'vision' of short-sighted' margin strategy....
production supersedes quality and perhaps even safety, not normally good indicators of a viable, sustainable business model...
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:11 AM   #29
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If they want to produce 22 Montana's a day, and they do, those problems are going to exist. On the other hand we looked at rigs where they produce only one a day or less and we didn't want to spend the $250,000 or more that they wanted for them.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:58 AM   #30
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We are not talking about the sort of changes that would make a Montana cost 250K
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:21 AM   #31
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I thought the topic here was the Alpine? Seems like we all want to whine about the Montana. I loved my Montana had it for 6 1/2 years pulled it over 100,000 miles across the US and Canada 4 times. Now I own the Alpine,not saying it is any better then my Montana. I just like the new interior design and Full shower, not that piece of crap cover shower. So if your coming to the Q your welcome to come and see, first hand, the changes made in new model. Just remember I purchased this for me cause I liked it. So your opinion don't mean **** to me.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:24 AM   #32
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Sgrob47

I thought the topic here was the Alpine? Seems like we all want to whine about the Montana. I loved my Montana had it for 6 1/2 years pulled it over 100,000 miles across the US and Canada 4 times. Now I own the Alpine,not saying it is any better then my Montana. I just like the new interior design and Full shower, not that piece of crap cover shower. So if your coming to the Q your welcome to come and see, first hand, the changes made in new model. Just remember I purchased this for me cause I liked it. So your opinion don't mean **** to me.
and there you have it....
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:43 PM   #33
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...just perspectives.... not necessarily "opinions"
my "opinion" is that until you spend 1MM+ on a tag axle motor coach, low cost-next-month's-profit is what we accept when we understand the WHOLE value proposition when we buy the best selling mid-range fifth wheel on the market.

Please forgive me, I am also the proud owner of a Keystone product. ..and have owned TTs and 5th wheels from $20K to 90K. The business model is almost rubber stamped across the industry until you move to ultra-class motor coach

consider this:
*the Amish 'craftsmen are from a culture and society of low tech construction and life quality.
*compared to the auto-industry, RVs are an extremely low volume consumer purchase.
*...hence, margin per 'unit' is the revenue source
*also remember this: until you move to the tag (dual-wheel) axle motor coach, lightweight is the name of the game in manufacturing RVs

please excuse my arrogance on this, but i learned it, worked it, taught it, for 32 years
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:45 PM   #34
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It is the truth that whatever rig you buy for less than $250,000 you are buying a rig with all the parts coming from the low bidder and emphasis on appearance rather than quality construction. That said we like our Montana and improve on the original parts and construction as the opportunities present themselves. The problem for Keystone is that we have no interest in buying a new one. We would have to take a step backwards on many things they don't include in the new rigs. Easiest to explain would be IS and disk brakes.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:20 AM   #35
fauch
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i did not know that they went back to drum brakes
what is IS?
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:01 AM   #36
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quote:Originally posted by fauch

i did not know that they went back to drum brakes
what is IS?
I did not know they ever started using disk brakes at the factory.
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