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Old 03-22-2013, 01:20 AM   #1
ourturn
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Battery Guidance

Hello,

We know this information is discussed frequently, but have a sub question. We have a 2011 3750FL with the original battery. My wife has lived in it using shore power for the last year. We are heading out on our full time adventure this June. We want to be able to spend a night or two - eventually more - boondocking.

Know there are many opinions: two 12V, 4 (or more) 6V. Should we keep it simple and go the two 12 V route, thinking they should be matched? In other words is it wise to add a new to a battery with an unknown history?

Need a set up that will allow two nights or so of camping until we decided on how to charge them, but that's another post.

Would like to hear from those who do it!

Thanks

Sean and Marian
 
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:47 AM   #2
bncinwv
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by ourturn

We want to be able to spend a night or two - eventually more - boondocking.

Thanks

Sean and Marian
We don't do it, but with the statement above, I would go ahead and pursue the multiple 6v route, you will need them for the "eventually more" statement that you included. Charging can be simple (small portable generator) to complex (solar system). Spend the money up front to cover your long term plans. We have a dual 12v bank and it will last at least a couple of days without charging.

Bingo
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Bingo and Cathy - Our adventures begin in the hills of WV. We are blessed by our 2014 3850FL Big Sky (previous 2011 3750FL and 2007 3400RL) that we pull with a 2007 Chevy Silverado Classic DRW CC dually.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:50 AM   #3
MIMF
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Sean, can't give you a lot of good knowledge but, a couple years ago the original battery in our unit went bad. Now, whenever any of our vehicles or the 5th wheel needs a new battery, I go to Sears and get Die-Hards. I installed 2 high CCA deep cycle Die-Hard batteries in the 5th wheel. Last summer, late in the season, I noticed that 12 volt appliances in the unit where not working like they should until.....I hooked a charger up the batteries. That is when I realized that there was a converter issue. I have no idea when the converter decided to go "south" but, the batteries got us thru the season. Now, sometime in the next week or so, I need to replace the converter. Do some research in order to determine what you need to do to accomplish your end goal. I think the 2 Die-Hards I have are good for atleast 48 hours until I need to plug the Bargman into the tail end of the truck to recharge them.
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:15 AM   #4
Ozz
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Good advice from our fellow MOC folks, I would add that battery experts state to not add a new battery with an old battery, they won't charge right, and the new one will be drug down to the level of the old one.
Best to start with 2 new ones. I would suggest 2 6 volt... or 4... from Sam's maybe, as they are everywhere and warranty will be convenient, golf cart batteries. They have heavy plates and are made for repeated recharge. That said, I love the Sears Platinum batteries, have 2 on my Super-Duty.
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:43 AM   #5
Ozz
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Here is a good read on batteries:
http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/artic...ry-basics.html.

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Old 03-22-2013, 04:25 AM   #6
RickW
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You have to look at the amp hours (AH) for the batteries. In most cases you are going to get more AH out of two 6v batteries than 2 12v batteries. The big draw back to the 6v batteries is the weight.

As already mentioned adding a battery to your current setup will just pull the new battery down to the level of the old one. You are best to replace the old one when you add a new one. That is also why with diesels with multiple batteries it is recommend to replace all batteries even if only one is currently bad.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:49 AM   #7
Gkerlin
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You know that's a loaded question and really no "Right" answer...

I think that Bingo is on the right track but it really depends on how much boondocking and when you plan on doing it thats important.

If realistically you're not going to be doing for long stretches it for a year or so then I wouldn't invest in a large bank of 6v batteries now. Do it when you fully engineer the system that you want and plan on adding the other components (solar or whatever) to create a true long term boondock capable rig.

No sense putting in a large bank of batteries right now that you might not need or don't have the capability of properly charging except by going to an RV park. You would just prematurely wear them out and cost yourself more money in the long run.

If your battery is only a year or so old and has been on a charger properly maintained and not discharged a lot then it's likely still in good shape - If money is an issue I'd just get another 12v for now (they are cheap enough) throw it in parallel and be done with it. If you are not sure then get a pair.

Sounds like for now you are only looking for a couple of nights and if you aren't running heat and drawing a lot of other power you should be fine with 2 12v to start. We boon docked for a long time with 2-12v batteries - usually at least a week at a clip. They are cheaper and easy to acquire. Get fancy when you really know what you want but keep it simple till then.

You need to determine the condition of the existing 12v battery. If its in good shape then no harm keeping it. If its not then you do want to invest in a pair. If you don't know how to test it a reputable battery or auto shop could do it.

Get your feet wet doing some boondocking and see if you like it before spending too much. If you do and want to go for longer stretches then its time to start researching how you want to equip your rig to do it.

When the time comes for setting it up for long term boon docking (by that I mean at least week or longer off grid done frequently) then you need to invest in good batteries that will handle lots of discharge recharge cycles and the system to properly recharge them.

JMHO Hope it helps you decide.
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Old 03-22-2013, 05:20 AM   #8
ourturn
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Thanks to all. I know this question is like asking about tires - sure to get a response. Also replacing those, but again - another post!

We want to take it slow, and I am a big fan of (KISS Keep(ing) It Simple, Stupid). At this point I just want to be able to survive until we have a little more of a clue. The current battery was not well maintained, so would probably feel beter with 2 out of the box, just to keep from a problem later and to keep current situation livable for those days when needed.

The 6V intrigues me, but will do more research and see where it goes.We are very new to this and will be jumping in the deep end as we take our inaugural trip to the Escapees Escapade in Gillette. Every day we realize how much we don't know. Just want to keep the learning from being too painful, but know we have to take our lumps, too.

Looking forward to meeting you all on the road!

Thanks again.

Sean
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Old 03-22-2013, 05:39 AM   #9
Gkerlin
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One suggestion I always make to people considering spending any significant time off grid or upgrading electrical systems in RVs or Boats is to first invest in an energy monitor.

They are cheap and IMO one of the best gauges that you can have.

They are like a fuel gauge for your battery bank and are indispensable in helping you size your electrical system should you decide to go with a real boondock setup.

Even if not upgrading - they let you know and understand the state of your batteries at any given moment.

They tell you what you've pulled out - put back in - what you are pulling at any given moment. They really allow you to easily monitor and manage your power.

For the RV - The Trimetric is a good unit. Easy to install.

Link to info on it is HERE.

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Old 03-22-2013, 05:57 AM   #10
Alwims
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I wish I could add a lot more, but everyone here has said almost all I could offer. I will suggest, if you go the 6 volt route wired in series to make 12 volt, use the largest wire/cable you can find to hook the 2 together. I used 4-0 which is the size of a large man's thumb on my battery bank, (4, 6 volt Golf Cart batteries wired is series and parallel to make 12 volts) for the solar setup I just finished. I am convinced that the largest wire/cable you can find works best.

Another suggestion. Make a plan and put it on paper, as Greg/Gkerlin did, so you can build your system in steps so you can add to it later and not make as many expensive mistakes as I did. I have a very successful battery and solar charging system, but I also have a box of used parts because I didn't make a plan for future additions.

Good luck on what ever you decide, just don't do it blindly. Make a plan and put it on paper.
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Old 03-22-2013, 06:38 AM   #11
Art-n-Marge
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I've read too many good things with 6v versus 12v batteries. While there is a higher overall cost difference with 6v, the benefits pay that back with each use.

If you KISS it now, you'll be replacing your batteries with dual 12v batteries. That is a simple upgrade. Uprgrading to Maintenance free (recommended) 12v batteries will add a few more dollars but make maintainance even easier. Like others have said they should give you a two or three boondocking days depending on how power hungry you are, but you must have a recharge capability of some kind at the end of that and you won't be using much 110v gear unless you have an additional inverter which adds to the battery drain. Prior rigs I've own rig had a single 12v battery, then when we bought the new Montana back in 2006 and it came with two 12v and I learned to love the extra power.

Fast forward to today. I have finished my dual 12v battery lifestyle (3 rigs) and want to be ABLE to boondock more. Since we won't boondock a lot (unless I venture out by myself and not with DW), and now that the original 12v are old and expected to fail (one already has), I will convert to dual 6v to get the electrical equivalent of a single 12v battery. However, with 6v batteries draining slower and recharging quicker and I feel this will solve any of the discharge/recharge issues I currently have with my dual, now single 12v battery system.

I also won't mind the expense of buying maintenance free as well. If we do boondock more since I think the 6v battery operation might promote it, we can add a second bank of dual 6v batteries to the mix and continue the electrical upgrade. We still have 30 amps worth of generators for recharging or backup or if we need 110v items (like our televisions, microwave and fridge to save propane), but this only works during the day. I doubt I'd ever justify solar recharging but it's another technical possibility.

I hope what I've learned over the past 5 years helps with your decision.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:57 AM   #12
Rondo
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ourturn-- you didn't mention if you will be using a generator or not while boondocking! Are you going to use one and if so which and using one or two of them? A single 200 generator like the 2000 Honda will recharge your batteries and you won't need the longer reserve like I did did. I put in two 12 volt batteries but each has a reserve of 390 minutes! OVERKILL but what did I know! LOL Also you do not want to run you batteries down to low or you can hurt them or even destroy them in the way of recharging! Just a little warning there, IMHO!
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:30 PM   #13
ols1932
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In all my years of RVing both part time and for the last 12 years full timing, I never ever installed a new battery along side a used one (regardless of how long it had been used).

Orv
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:04 PM   #14
bobcat92
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Costco also has 6V golf cart batteries. About same price as Sams Club Energizer golf cart batteries.
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:24 PM   #15
kab449
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Within 1 month of delivery I swapped out my OE 12 volt deep cycle for 2 six volt golf cart batteries. I have the same Montana as you with an onboard generator. The two 6 volts fit nicely in the compartment but had to buy a new sealed battery box and change the vent. Along with changing the lights to LED there is enough of power to dry camp for a day or two depending on what you have to do. If you start adding invertors to power Electronics or other 110 volt appliances your time gets shorter.
You will need a better battery monitor than the light system to know when to start your generator to recharge.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:37 PM   #16
tbhd2
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We went with the AGM 12 volt batteries. They are exspensive but they are completely maintenance free and don't have to be vented. They hold a charge longer and recharge faster. I could never remember to check the water in the wet cell batteries.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:41 PM   #17
Exnavydiver
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We have 2 Trojan 6 volt golf cart batteries and when we were in Quartzite this winter for the circling of the Montanas it was 21 the first two or three nights, we have all LED lights in the rig now and the furnace ran for most of the night. The first morning we still had 3 out of the four battery charge lights lit. The furnace draws a fair amount of juice so the 2 6s are working out great. We would like to eventually get 4 or 6 but for now the 2 are doing us great. Our OEM 12 volt would have not made it through the first night..
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:24 AM   #18
ourturn
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Thanks to all for the ideas!

Did I mention that I am not super handy? Sure, I can change a battery. Can YouTube a parallel set up for multi batteries. Prob not going to make my own cables or box.

As many of you have mentioned, we want to be in a good position building block-wise to go forward once we have a basic clue. We figure we may learn something at Escapades as well as on the trip to and from as far as some basic needs and preferences. Just don't want to go too far down any one road - yet. Will be checking soon, but are the 6V that much more expensive? Will any 6V work, or are there sizes?

Thanks!

Sean
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:03 AM   #19
Art-n-Marge
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Orv brings up a great point. Do not ADD a battery to an existing battery. The older weaker battery will turn the new battery into an older weaker battery. It's best to purchase and install in pairs just like what all other multi-battery devices recommend.

The vendor where you purchase the batteries should be able to recommend a battery box for 6v or 12v batteries. As far as handy, if you know how to replace one battery, then installing a second is not hard.

If you are not sure here's how to install a two battery system: A.) For 12v you connect both batteries with a proper wire with Positive to Positive and Negative to Negative. Then connect the Positive of ONE battery to the RV positive (usually the red wire), then connect the Negative of the OTHER battery to the ground wire (usually white or black wire). DO NOT make the rig connections to the SAME battery!! B.) For 6v you MUST do this in pairs and you connect the Negative of one battery to the Positive of the other battery for both batteries. This in-series connection means that both batteries now provide the 12v needed. Then the Positive of one battery is connected to the RV and the Negative of the OTHER battery is connected to the RV ground. Again, DO NOT make the rig connections with the SAME battery (corrected per GKerlin).

If you are so inspired let us know if you need help with a 4 battery 6v system. You might think about this since you want the batteries to be of the same age, brand and type.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:52 AM   #20
Art-n-Marge
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Thanks for correcting that Gkerlin! I will correct my post above so it's correct.
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