Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > HAVE MOC WILL TRAVEL > The Campsite
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-16-2018, 08:00 AM   #21
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 19,074
M.O.C. #2839
What Phil P said. We also have a EMS PT 50C that we connect to the pedestal before we connect to the Montana and check out the pedestal functions.
richfaa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2018, 09:10 AM   #22
BB_TX
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 4,528
M.O.C. #6433
Quote:
Originally Posted by whutfles View Post
Ok, my dealer preaches there is no 240V in RV's. Only 120V.
.................
Your dealer is half right. There IS 240 vac in 50 amp RVs. But except for rare exceptions there are no appliances that actually use 240 vac. Some high end RVs do have some 240 vac appliances. And some people have installed 240 vac clothes dryers in their RVs that have no other 240 vac appliances.

50 amp RVs are wired exactly like a house. Nothing special. There is 240 available but most electrical devices use only 120 vac.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
(RIP Molly- our 12 yr old Golden)
2007 3075RL
2012 F350 SRW CC LB FX4 6.7
BB_TX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2018, 03:57 PM   #23
rohrmann
Montana Master
 
rohrmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 1,970
M.O.C. #12947
Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_TX View Post
Your dealer is half right. There IS 240 vac in 50 amp RVs. But except for rare exceptions there are no appliances that actually use 240 vac. Some high end RVs do have some 240 vac appliances. And some people have installed 240 vac clothes dryers in their RVs that have no other 240 vac appliances.

50 amp RVs are wired exactly like a house. Nothing special. There is 240 available but most electrical devices use only 120 vac.

This can be half right, that there is 240 volts in the RV that isn't used, but there can also be 208 volts, depending on the transformer serving the RV park. So, it really doesn't matter what the hot to hot leg voltage is, so long as the hot legs to ground or neutral is 120 volts. If you do use a meter to check voltage, do not panic if you see something in the range of 208 volts hot to hot. This is the sticker on our rig next to the shore cable receptacle.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg voltage label.jpg (28.1 KB, 114 views)
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402RL
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC 4WD
rohrmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2018, 04:03 PM   #24
jeffba
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bastrop
Posts: 859
M.O.C. #20753
You know if they would make a dryer that was 240/120V sensing so it could run on either I bet it would sell, if the price difference was not too great. Of course, manufacturers would have to wire it. So a big hill to climb.
__________________
2019 20th Anniversary Edition 3701LK
B&W 20K for Ford OEM Puck
2018 Ford F-350 Lariat CCLB PSD DRW
Poke super lignum unum et diem
jeffba is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2018, 05:01 PM   #25
scottz
Montana Master
 
scottz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mancos Colorado
Posts: 588
M.O.C. #19755
Quote:
Originally Posted by whutfles View Post
Ok, my dealer preaches there is no 240V in RV's. Only 120V.

I went to the KOA site referenced in the first post here and followed him OK until he said that 50 amp was 12000 watts, 50 amps X 240 volts = 12000 watts.

What I have in my Montanna is 50 amps X 120 volts = 6000 watts. I have 2 hot legs of 120V @ 50 amps each so, yes I have 50 amps X 120 volts = 6000 watts X 2 = 12000 watts. But each receptacle and appliance in my RV is only connected to one hot leg or 120V. There are no receptacles or appliances connected to both hot legs as in a 240 V application.

I think this site explained it well:
http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/50amp_Service.htm
Your dealer is correct and your description is accurate. Nothing is 240V in our rigs, but there are two 120V 50A busses; 6KW each.
__________________
Scott, Alta & Kodiak, Navy Family
2017 Montana 3160RL, Legacy, Onan 5.5Kw, Solar
2014 Ford F350 6.7 PSD
scottz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2018, 05:05 PM   #26
scottz
Montana Master
 
scottz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mancos Colorado
Posts: 588
M.O.C. #19755
Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_TX View Post
There is 240 available but most electrical devices use only 120 vac.
Kind of; it would require a different style breaker panel to install 240A breakers that connect to both 120V legs; not an option on my rig.
__________________
Scott, Alta & Kodiak, Navy Family
2017 Montana 3160RL, Legacy, Onan 5.5Kw, Solar
2014 Ford F350 6.7 PSD
scottz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2018, 08:57 PM   #27
scattershot
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 811
M.O.C. #5329
Not to sound crass, but it’s their campgound, their rules, deal with it.
scattershot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2018, 03:11 AM   #28
jeffba
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bastrop
Posts: 859
M.O.C. #20753
Quote:
Originally Posted by scattershot View Post
Not to sound crass, but itís their campgound, their rules, deal with it.

No vote with your $$$
__________________
2019 20th Anniversary Edition 3701LK
B&W 20K for Ford OEM Puck
2018 Ford F-350 Lariat CCLB PSD DRW
Poke super lignum unum et diem
jeffba is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2018, 04:40 AM   #29
Phil P
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,078
M.O.C. #11206
Hi

I would avoid a camp ground with that rule it means they have improper wiring.

Phil P
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https://www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
Phil P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2018, 05:46 AM   #30
Dave W
Montana Fan
 
Dave W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 389
M.O.C. #14547
Ours is a 50 amp 5er. Our summer site is 30 amps or 3600 watts of energy. We have two a/c units plus all of the usual appliances. We never trip the rigs breakers nor the pedestal since we have educated ourselves on the shortcomings of using that 3600 watts which on 90+ days means a singl a/c. When we travel, depending on the length of stay or the weather if we need 3600 watts (30 amps) or 12,000 watts (50 amps). We use a full length 30 amp cord from the 5er attached to a Marinco twist on adapter at the unit instead of dragging that heavy cord our. You say why store all those wires? No problem since the two 30 amp cord lengths nestles inside of the two 50 amp cord lengthss on the floor of the basement - and that basement is far from full at the best (worst?) of travel times..


Unfortunately, the way that I use power is not for everyone in that some folks feel that since they have it (it being anything that uses electricity) they should be able to run everything at the same time, hence the statement above about some folks having "no clue". A dealer or salesman wont tell you that. He makes a general assumption that you have some basic level of knowledge. Additionally, he may not know it either since he sold dishwashers an TVs last week. Before a newbie goes out and spend a bunch of bucks, it's his resposibility to at least have a grasp of some RVing rig ownership basics -- but as we all know, that doen't happen. Just spend some time in front of the tube and watch 'Going RV' and you will shudder at some of their captives and their knowledge or lack thereof.
__________________
Dave W
Traveling with my DW Susan, a couple poodlepups and our 2014 Montana High Country 343RL, being towed by a 6.7 2011 F250 CCLB using a B&W hitch and OEM puck system
Dave W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2018, 07:29 AM   #31
scattershot
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 811
M.O.C. #5329
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffba View Post
No vote with your $$$


Probably the best way to deal with it, for sure.
scattershot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2018, 07:37 AM   #32
Waricha
Established Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Blossvale
Posts: 21
M.O.C. #20684
I would have said "see you later" and gone someplace else. With the number of RV's set up for 50 amp services now, that was an extremely unaccommodating stance to take.
Waricha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2018, 07:45 AM   #33
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 19,074
M.O.C. #2839
We always ask for 50 amp service .We have 50 map here at the S&B and 50 amp at our Florida lot. We had to use 30 amp on our way back from Florida this year as our PT 50C indicated low voltage leg one on the 50 amp and there was no other lot available.

We have all this good stuff on this thing and we want to use whatever we want to whenever we want to. I don't know if we can run everything at once.We will have to test that.We did two years ago during a very hot and humid spell see 37 amps on leg one and 27 amps on leg two.We did make sure the A/C's were on separate legs . We had a nice power bill that month as the A/C's ran day and night.
richfaa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2018, 01:48 PM   #34
dlscott185
Established Member
 
dlscott185's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 34
M.O.C. #21450
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohrmann View Post
We have been to numerous KOA parks in the past several years and have had to plug into 30 amp outlets using the 30-50 dogbone many times, and have never had an issue with the park management saying it was not allowed. Just for our information so we can avoid this park, which one is it? And where?
Just to be clear, this is not a KOA that won't let me plug in. It's A-OK Campground outside St. Joseph, MO. It is an older park, so suspect the breakers and/or the plugs are old. So they may have had some problems with a few old ones for the reasons already sited on this thread, and now view all dog-bones as a problem.

I mentioned KOA in my first post because that's where I found the item explaining why they might have problems.
__________________
Dale and Char Scott
2012 F350 6.7L
2018 Montana HC 380TH
Snowy and Mouse
dlscott185 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2018, 04:05 PM   #35
Wyatt Earp
Established Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Newport
Posts: 18
M.O.C. #21746
Campground Power

Trying to be neutral with this thread the campground owner does have a problem - money. We stay at Kerr Lake every May and the campground has 30 amps on one side of the loop and 50 amp on the other. When asked why they don't upgrade to 50 amp for all sites, I was told the estimate to convert would be around $60,000. This is for, I'm guessing, around 20 sites. To convert they have to rewire (more amps, larger wire), replace the pedestals, breakers, receptacles, the main panel board, plus all the labor. The quoted figure, I assume, did not include changing out the buried conduit nor the transformer feeding the area.



So it's not just changing a breaker and receptacle to upgrade. The whole system may need to be upgraded. Businesses need to watch their bottom line and I can see why an owner may not want to invest in power upgrades until the time comes when they lose more business than what an upgrade would cost. Just my 2 cents worth.
Wyatt Earp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2018, 07:04 PM   #36
jmsokol
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Hagerstown
Posts: 6
M.O.C. #13934
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlscott185 View Post
For the first time ever, I was told a
I did some research, and found this entry on a KOA website. It does a pretty good job of explaining why it can be a problem.
http://rvservices.koa.com/rvinformat...trical-101.asp

And I thought I understood electrical wiring and circuit breakers.
aaaa
I learned something new today.

I'm Mike Sokol from the No~Shock~Zone, and I write about RV electrical power usage all the time on RVtravel.com. Is this 30/50-amp adapter ban something I should cover in my RV Electricity blog and post here? It's a really important topic that needs clarification.
jmsokol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2018, 08:34 PM   #37
BB_TX
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 4,528
M.O.C. #6433
I, for one, am a skeptic. His reasoning just does not make sense to me. I do agree with his statement that if you have a 50 amp rig you should plug into the 50 amp outlet if available. But I know of no reason to do otherwise. Beyond that I do not agree on many things.

A 30 amp outlet is designed to safely and adequately carry 30 amps. And that outlet is protected by a 30 amp breaker to ensure it does not carry more than the rating. And if properly wired should not overheat.

Yes, a 50 amp rig is capable of pulling 3 times more power than a 30 amp rig, IF it is plugged into a 50 amp outlet. But plugged into a 30 amp outlet using an adapter it is limited to 30 amps. Just like a 30 amp rig.

I have no idea why he thinks a 50 amp rig that is limited by a 30 amp breaker is going to “pull down” everyone’s power. And that it is like 3 RVs suddenly plugging in. 30 amps is 30 amps no matter what the RV.

If the park outlet is in poor condition, yes, it can overheat. If the wiring is undersized or improperly wired, it can overheat. If the breaker is poor quality and trips at higher amps than design, it can overheat. But these conditions can exist on a 30 amp RV running at max power.

If I am wrong I certainly welcome anyone to correct my thinking.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
(RIP Molly- our 12 yr old Golden)
2007 3075RL
2012 F350 SRW CC LB FX4 6.7
BB_TX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 03:59 AM   #38
Phil P
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,078
M.O.C. #11206
BB TX

I agree and my post says the same thing.

A camp ground that doesn’t allow you to use the 30 to 50 Amp dog bone has a reason that they don’t want to advertise and I wouldn’t recommend using them even with a 30 Amp unit.

Phil P
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https://www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
Phil P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 08:30 AM   #39
JandC
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Cape Coral
Posts: 2,253
M.O.C. #13272
Like many others, when we call a CG for availability we ask certain questions, including making sure the site has 50amp, water, and sewer. Rarely we have ever talked to a CG that says they only have 30amp sites, and if we would then we just would thank them and hang up.

All my fivers and now my SOB is designed for 50amp. Sure I can use one of my adapters and plug into 30amp or even a 115 outlet. However, if I am paying to stay at a CG why would I? I suppose if they were giving me a nice site for $15 a day I would consider it but with about 99% of all CGs having 50amp service shame on them for not updating.
__________________
Previous: 2008 Montana 3400RL & 2014 3725RL
Current: Full Time in DP
JandC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 08:42 AM   #40
dlscott185
Established Member
 
dlscott185's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 34
M.O.C. #21450
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsokol View Post
I'm Mike Sokol from the No~Shock~Zone, and I write about RV electrical power usage all the time on RVtravel.com. Is this 30/50-amp adapter ban something I should cover in my RV Electricity blog and post here? It's a really important topic that needs clarification.
I think that would be a great idea. Getting another perspective would be great. I'd like to go back to the owner of that campground and show them something that says they are all wet.

To clarify further, they do have 50amp sites available, and that's what we are staying in, but I've stayed in multiple 30amp sites with out a problem. I still think they have had failures in the past from old, worn out plugs/breakers and are now gun shy.
__________________
Dale and Char Scott
2012 F350 6.7L
2018 Montana HC 380TH
Snowy and Mouse
dlscott185 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.