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Old 09-14-2018, 06:03 PM   #21
PNW Fireguy
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M.O.C. #18081
The 128 sec delay is inherent to the TRC surge guard, didn't know that.



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Old 09-14-2018, 07:25 PM   #22
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I made one of these using the same type of plug. T only difference was the wire that I used to do the jump wasn’t solid copper wire, it was 12 gauge but it was braided wire maybe that’s why mine didn’t work. Do you have any thoughts on this? Thanks!
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Old 09-14-2018, 07:28 PM   #23
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This is what happens when you buy a quality generator. I have a Generac and have no problem running 1 or 2 a/c's at the same time. With my 2,000 watt Honda i had to put my progressive ems on bypass and plug in a jumper plug. With no ems and plugging in a jumper plug it should work ok. You can't buy a better generator than Honda.
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Old 09-14-2018, 07:44 PM   #24
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Unfortunately, swapping out my EMS is a big deal. I was hoping for another solution. Maybe using a solid 12 gauge copper wire (as opposed to a 12 gauge braided wire) will work. If anyone knows why that would make a difference, let me know. Thanks!
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Old 09-14-2018, 08:26 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by mchurch314 View Post
Unfortunately, swapping out my EMS is a big deal. I was hoping for another solution. Maybe using a solid 12 gauge copper wire (as opposed to a 12 gauge braided wire) will work. If anyone knows why that would make a difference, let me know. Thanks!



Stranded or solid wire won't have any impact as long as you have a solid connection. If you got continuity between the ground and neutral male prongs on the plug with a multimeter you should be good to go. I don't own a generator of the model you are using. If there are breakers for each of the outlets make sure they are on and not tripped. I cannot think of any other reason the strapped plug should not provide a bonded jumper that the TRC can see.
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Old 09-14-2018, 08:52 PM   #26
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I’ll check the breakers tomorrow. Thanks for the idea!
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:43 AM   #27
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You should only use a portable generator that has a bonded neutral for supply to an RV. The National Electrical Code (NEC) requires that the RV have a neutral that is "floating" in the rig. So, to have a ground-fault return path, the neutral must be bonded to the frame of the generator.
A grounding electrode is NOT required for the portable generator. However, GFCIs and grounding type receptacles and grounds for appliances and equipment cannot function if there is no neutral bond at the generator.
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:00 AM   #28
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Sorry man, the better approach is to contact the manufacturer of the generator and find out how to do the neutral-to-ground bond inside the generator.
A portable generator that has a bonded neutral should be used to power lights, appliances, equipment and RVs.
(In the electrical industry, we refer these type of neutral-to-ground jumpers as "false-grounds" or "phantom-grounds". Though you prove your "jumper method" works, doing this is really a violation of the National Electrical Code.)
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:19 AM   #29
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From what I have read the external plug to fix the ground problem works well. Unfortunately for me, I hadn't read about this when I got a generator. So I spoke to the store owner that sold it to me and he guided me thru moving a wire inside the genny. It works fine ever since. But it was a bit of a pain to do this. A plug would have been much easier.
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:23 AM   #30
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From what I have read the external plug to fix the ground problem works well. Unfortunately for me, I hadn't read about this when I got a generator. So I spoke to the store owner that sold it to me and he guided me thru moving a wire inside the genny. It works fine ever since. But it was a bit of a pain to do this. A plug would have been much easier.
Seems to me the easiest fix is to not use your EMS when running off your genny.
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:10 AM   #31
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The bonded plug is an easy fix. The issue is really the EMS. If the EMS had a bypass the issue would not occur.

With respect to the NEC, I am not sure THIS issue is covered by art. 551 (other areas still apply) less it were a permanently installed generator.
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:13 AM   #32
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*Update*

The new bonding plug I made works. The SurgeGuard EMS no longer detects an open ground. So here's the skinny, one Honda 2200EU will NOT run one AC but two running in parallel will run one or BOTH AC units. Was hoping ot would be one for one but happy now that I have a solution!!
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:55 AM   #33
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Response to PNWFireguy: Let me assure you that other sections of the NEC do apply and prohibit what you are recommending. (By the way, I have served for many years on the NEC committee that writes the rules for grounding and bonding (Article 250). I also served as Chairman of the Committee of the NEC that writes Article 551 that regulates RVs.)
For example, try NEC 250.24 (A)(5), 250.140 and 250.142. There is a very good safety reason the neutral "floats" in the RV and the neutral needs to be bonded in the portable generator.
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Old 09-21-2018, 12:00 PM   #34
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Mchurch314, per micro air easy start you should be able to run a 15K A/C on one Honda 2200. If you turn off the breaker for your converter/battery charger and run your fridge on propane and water heater on propane you should be able to run it one one genny.
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:03 PM   #35
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Response to PNWFireguy: Let me assure you that other sections of the NEC do apply and prohibit what you are recommending. (By the way, I have served for many years on the NEC committee that writes the rules for grounding and bonding (Article 250). I also served as Chairman of the Committee of the NEC that writes Article 551 that regulates RVs.)
For example, try NEC 250.24 (A)(5), 250.140 and 250.142. There is a very good safety reason the neutral "floats" in the RV and the neutral needs to be bonded in the portable generator.

Not sure what the point is of assuring me of something I already said was the case in my post. Yes I agreed that there were multiple other articles within the NEC that applied to this scenario. That said however 551 does not apply as the reasoning for bonding the neutral of a portable generator backfeeding and RV. That's all. Please don't take it as a verbal assault of you or your earlier post.


mchurch there is other evidence, including that from Micro-Air directly, that a single Honda eu2000 will start and run a 15k AC unit with the Easy Start installed. It is only the starting or locked rotor current that prevents the AC from starting on that generator without the Easy Sart. The running current is within the Honda's rated capacity.

Based upon your updated information it appears something was amiss with regards to the original bonded plug. Based upon that and your findings that you need two eu2000's to run the single AC unit if it were me I would reset the ES and perform the 5 starts on shore power again to re-train the ES. Then try the single Honda again. Just my .02
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:30 PM   #36
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Someone else mentioned retraining the EMS in an earlier post. Since this is a new unit I'll wait and see what happens after we use Shore power 5 or more times. Maybe the Honda will work with just one generator and one AC. I certainly hope so.
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:41 PM   #37
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Someone else mentioned retraining the EMS in an earlier post. Since this is a new unit I'll wait and see what happens after we use Shore power 5 or more times. Maybe the Honda will work with just one generator and one AC. I certainly hope so.

That was me. You have to follow a specific process to reset the ES. Check your instructions or the website if you did not retain them.


Relearn:
If a compressor, start capacitor, or run capacitor is replaced, place a jumper on pins 4 and 6 as shown. Cycle power on then off again
and replace the jumper in the “Normal” position.
Follow step 13 of the retrofit instructions to complete the relearn process
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