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08-30-2006, 08:00 PM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pasco
Posts: 986
M.O.C. #5972
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Exhaust Brake
Need some analysis from the truck folks. I am thinking of getting an exhaust brake early next year for my 02 F350 7.3 PSD. I don't understand enough to know which brand or way to go. I looked under "exhaust brake" on the web and found, Banks, BD Diesle, PacBrake, d-Celerator and SP diesel. Which are junk? Which are good? If you had to rank them, how would you rank them? Is there a brand I didn't find that should be considered?
Mike
F350 7.3L LB SRW
2003 3575RL
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08-31-2006, 10:31 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Midlothian
Posts: 956
M.O.C. #40
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Mike,
I use the Western Diesel Turbo Brake and have since the truck was new in 2001.
We have crossed the Rockies as well as others and have been very satisfied with the braking.We hardly ever use the brake except to go to a lower gear if needed.
check it out here.
http://www.thedieselstop.com/content...0Turbo%20Brake
Montana 3280 RL
Ford 350 Lariat PSD
Western Diesel turbo
brake, gauges, chip
OUR travels: http://community.webshots.com/user/awaywego
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08-31-2006, 10:36 AM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 4,876
M.O.C. #1944
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I have the Banks Exhaust Brake and it works well. I don't know about the others but I have heard good reports about PacBrake.
Orv
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08-31-2006, 10:44 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mount Shasta
Posts: 1,488
M.O.C. #1685
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Mike,
Check with your Ford dealer. Mine did a conversion on my 1995 7.3 that involved some rewiring of existing equipment, adding a rocker switch on the dash and I believe a relay. They called it a "Whoa Back" and charged about $400. A lot cheaper than the others you mentioned and guaranteed by the Ford dealer. I've had it for seven years and very satisfied with the results.
Don
Don & Claudia
MOC 1685
1999 2850RK
1995 F250 Ext.Cab 4x4 7.3 PSD
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08-31-2006, 03:59 PM
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#5
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Established Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: decatur
Posts: 14
M.O.C. #4489
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Mike, I put on a sp diesel 2years ago. Great theory but no performance. Outfit wanted to runaway down the hill. Got home, took it off and put on a US Gear. I wish I'd have done that first. Works great. mick
'03 3280RL lots of modifications (always piddlin)6-8" belly tubes, rear tool box, stainless sink, race car battery cut-off, led lights, full width 4" pooppipe holder, awning saver. Pulled by a '99 Fordasaurus F-350, 4-door, longbox, 4wd, 7.3 shaker, pillar gauges, 4" stainless pipe, superchip tuner, led lights, US Gear exhaust brake. http://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...h_MVC-481S.jpg http://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...h_MVC-479S.jpg
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08-31-2006, 05:42 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Eugene
Posts: 1,050
M.O.C. #5091
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I had a 01 F-250 diesel 4x4 long bed ext cab last year until it was totaled in Canada in a head-on collison. Right before I started the trip I was going to order the Banks exhaust brake at a cost of about $1100. After reading the Bank brochures it looked to be bigger and better. That was their hype. Ifeel I really needed one to help on the braking going down hill with my Montana 2880. The trailer weighed about 10400# and that was including a Onan generator up front. I per-sonaly feel the Banks is tops(most expensive) and then the Pac-Brake although I have never owned either. Just what I have read about them.Whatever brand you buy it will be a smart move for safe operation.
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08-31-2006, 06:35 PM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pasco
Posts: 986
M.O.C. #5972
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Thanks for the input. Anyone else out there want to kick in? Do these systems all self operate or are they activated by the TV driver?
Mike
F350 7.3L LB SRW
2003 3575RL
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08-31-2006, 06:56 PM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Texico
Posts: 1,917
M.O.C. #6150
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I had one like Don's from the Ford dealer. It worked off a three position toggle switch. On, off, and auto. In the auto position, each time you let off the accelerator, or get in a coast type situation it would close off the exaust. In the on position, it was just that, on. The auto side of mine quit working once so I ran it manually for awhile. Problem was, I'd forget to turn it off when I wanted power again, makes 'em run bad, and smoke like a train. All in all it worked great with the automatic tranny, I didn't see that it helped alot with the standard tranny, so it belongs to someone else now.
Lonnie
2006 Montana 3000RK, Reciever Hitch for Boat and Toy Trailer
2003 F250 CC PSD, LB, 6 Speed Manual Trans., 4X4, Air Suspension, Husky 15K Hitch
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09-01-2006, 04:35 AM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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Just out of curiosity,
has anyone put one of these on the newer ford with Torqueshift and Tow command? With the transmission accepting inputs from the rpm and brake pressure to determine downshift on a grade, I'm just wondering if the exhaust brake would make this less effective, or interfere enough to cause erratic shifting?
Brad
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09-02-2006, 11:55 AM
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#10
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Livingston
Posts: 474
M.O.C. #2056
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Based on my experience, stay away from Banks. CW installed our and it didn't work well. Took it to the Banks factory and they improved it slightly. The Smart-Loc locked up our tranny when it shouldn't have and destroyed the transmission. Didn't like the BD we had in the previous truck. Don't need one with the new Chevy.
MoBillTuxRex&Princess
Fulltiming since '93
'04 3575; '06 2500HD Duramax/Allison
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09-02-2006, 12:47 PM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Clearwater
Posts: 10,917
M.O.C. #420
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Didn't need one in the old Chevy's or GMC's either. It was a Banks factory rep that told me a Chevy with the Tow/Haul mode did not need a Banks or any other type after market braking system and that installing one would just be a huge waste of money.
And ya know, 3 years with first an 03 Silverado D/A and now an 05 GMC Sierra D/A have proven him to be 100% correct. Some times you will find that ONE honest saleman.
Glenn
Montana Owners Home Page
RV Related Links
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09-03-2006, 02:31 AM
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#12
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Montana Fan
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sioux Falls
Posts: 398
M.O.C. #3846
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I added a BD brand onto my 1997 7.3 when it had about 170,000 miles. On two separate occasions, the back pressure created was strong enough to make a valve tag a piston. The first time it cost me about $1400. Didn't realize what the problem was and the second time it damaged one of my heads and that one cost me almost $2400. During the second ordeal, I had the dealer take the exhaust brake off and have managed without it. To date, I have never heard of anyone else having the same problem. I can tell you that since I removed the exhaust brake, I have put an additional 25,000 miles on the truck with no issues. Today it has 219,000+.
Virgil & Jo Allmond
1998 Volvo 610, 425hp, 14 Speed tranny
STICK HOUSE IS IN Suches, GA
TODAY WE ARE IN A 3555RL IN Malta, MT
See Our blog at...
Virgil47's Blog
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09-03-2006, 11:21 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: sioux falls
Posts: 1,835
M.O.C. #2121
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We had a PacBrake on our previous tow vehicle, a 1996 Dodge 2500, Cummins turbo diesel, and loved it. We drove over 100,000 in this truck and towed up and down some pretty tough grades. It was a gem and kept me from peeing my pants several times!!! It was manually activated. Our present TV, a 2006 Ford F350, PSD, has the tow haul command and we love it, too. If we ever needed an exhaust brake on another vehicle, I think I would go for the PacBrake.
Pam
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10-02-2006, 07:14 AM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Asheville
Posts: 502
M.O.C. #1967
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I asked my Ford dealer about exausts brakes and their mechanic advised against them. Said it leads to valve problems because of the back preasure. Anyone heard of this before or is my mechanic behind the times.
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10-02-2006, 02:50 PM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: New Market
Posts: 831
M.O.C. #375
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We had the Banks along with the Tanscommand on our old 2000 model Ford 7.3L. It worked very well and was a great asset at the time. I am sure most all name brand brakes will work well.
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10-02-2006, 07:43 PM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pasco
Posts: 986
M.O.C. #5972
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I contacted our my Ford dealer and he referred me to their RV division that installs the Pac brakes. They have had not problem putting them on or complaints that I know of. They do recommend that you also use the torque converter lockout with it. This is supposed to help save the transmission.
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10-03-2006, 10:01 AM
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#17
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Montana Fan
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Thornton
Posts: 178
M.O.C. #5799
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Well since you are looking for input, and I know this is counter to what others have said, here is my 2 cents...
As background, I have only owned Diesel trucks and tow 15-20K miles per year. I am also 23 years in the fire service driving large, heavy (50-70K lbs), firetrucks. Real heavy duty motors, trans, frames, etc. Some with exhaust breaks, others without. Those with exhaust brakes are driven almost exclusively with the exhaust brake disabled.
... a reminder, this is my opinion and may difer from others...
A little 3/4 or 1 ton pickup with a 14-18K 5th wheel in tow does not need an exhaust brake. If your truck cannot stop your 5th quickly and safely, I would focus on upgrading the truck brakes. Even with the Monty brakes disconnected, you should be able to stop the Monty safely, although hopefully you will never need to do this except in an emergency situation. If your Monty cannot stop itself, I would get the brakes fixed/adjusted. (When I say, Monty stopping itself, this means, correctly adjusted and maintained, you should be using similar or maybe slightly more braking force while towing than you do not towing. If you feel like the Monty requires a lot more braking effort from the TV, you may want to get the Monty's brakes fixed/adjusted. The Monty should not be pushing the tow vehicle. I know it is heavy and all, but remember, you are towing/pulling the 5th, it should never be pushing you... even when stopping. A trailer pushing a tow vehicle is also known as a future jacknife.) And forget about using the exhaust brake to save the pads. Change them every season if you do a lot of trailering, it is cheap insurance. On long grades, lower the gears and let the engine and transmission hold you back to prevent overheating the pads.
It's not that I don't believe there is a place for an exhaust brake... Real Heavy Duty Trucks with an integrated exhaust brake designed in that are used to transport heavy 50-80K loads sure. They are also designed with air brake systems. The key here is, 'designed into the system'. In most cases, they still rely on the lower gear to slow on long grades...
Exhaust brakes, like air brakes, just don't belong is light duty trucks. Adding a new braking feature, not designed into the overall truck system is... what lawyers hope for after an accident where the driver may have very well be 100% not at fault. Maybe I've been at too many accident investigations in my line of work and become a bit over sensitive to after market mods. All I know is when an accident happens, the lawyers head for the party with the deep pockets. Let them go after Ford, Keystone, Firestone, etc. Don't give these big guys an out by changing your braking system...
Anyway, my 2 cents... of course it's you TV and money and you should do what you feel comfortable with. Good luck with what ever decision you make. Tim
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10-03-2006, 01:03 PM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Hurricane
Posts: 503
M.O.C. #444
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Dodge must have confidence in exhaust breaks as they will be available as an option 1-1-2007. Myself, I wouldn't tow without one, don't want to be riding the brakes going downhill and having them get hot and not up to par when I need them. We have some big hills out West. You said "The Monty should not be pushing the tow vehicle". You said "On long grades, lower the gears and let the engine and transmission hold you back to prevent overheating the pads", wouldn't the Monty be pushing then?
Valve problems are usually caused by over reving the engine and the valve hitting the top of the piston.
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10-03-2006, 01:52 PM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Spring Hill
Posts: 2,725
M.O.C. #59
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I made one using my EBPV valve on the engine. It is normally used for startup in cold climates. I got the idea from thedieselstop.com and put together my own design. Also put in a TC lock circuit.
It works good but not as good as commercial versions. I only use it for long descents when the engine is at idle. My cost was about 35 dollars.
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10-03-2006, 02:43 PM
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#20
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Texico
Posts: 1,917
M.O.C. #6150
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Eastern Oregon, Cabbage Mountain, 6 miles of 6% to 7% downgrade, hairpin curves, switchback city, first time no exaust brake, down to 2nd gear, engine revved to limit, transmission screaming, brakes smoking on TV and trailer! Scared? What do you think? Second time, same place, with exaust brake, no smoking brakes, no red lined engine, no screaming transmission, and no seat cover to pull out of my a**! Sorry, I get a little emotional when I think back on it. Regardless of manufacturer reccomendations, or what anyone thinks, I will never tow with an automatic transmission, down that mountain again as long as I live, without an engine brake of some kind, whether it be exaust, or internal.
Just my thoughts, have a nice day.
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