Factory solar systems

[kowbra]

On another note, we did consider a more minimal solar with built in gen but ultimately decided to go with the Super Solar Flex system.

Here are some advantages they share:
-ability to run the whole coach when away from shore power and without going outside to start up a portable gen
-because of the above, can run an AC or other high power items even if the only power is a 15a on your driveway or at a friends place
-similar total cost when considering gen prep, the cost of the built in generator, and a medium sized solar and lithium package (our other choice was the built in gen with regular Solar Flex, then add a 2nd panel and about 300ah of lithium batteries)

Advantages of Super Solar Flex over built in gen:
-no maintenance
-simpler to use

Advantages of built in gen:
-more total power... fuel has more energy per pound than any battery, even lithium. So, running both ACs for many hours per day may be doable ...well as long as you have about a 100lbs of propane per day nearby

Ultimately, we decided that Super Solar Flex made sense, and if we want extended time with larger power loads, I can take my portable generator to top up the batteries.

That's what makes sense to us, and why we made the decision we did. I would be interested in other choices and what makes sense to them.

Thanks!

Brad

[RMcNeal]

Just a few weeks ago, I ran across a you tube video where a Montana rep was talking about the solar flex prep coming on the new units. If memory serves, the video was put up by BTBRV (Big Truck, Big RV), but I can't seem to find it right now.

[Lakelife]

Great info! Our plan is to add one more 265w panel and add 3 Lion Energy UT 1300 batteries. Same specs as the Battle Born with a smaller footprint. Much needed since we have the cumins generator and have very limited battery space.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by Lakelife

Great info! Our plan is to add one more 265w panel and add 3 Lion Energy UT 1300 batteries. Same specs as the Battle Born with a smaller footprint. Much needed since we have the cumins generator and have very limited battery space.

I think a very valid option, and we considered similar.
I don't think there is a wrong answer here; more just preference in the end.
BTW, I appreciate your info earlier as we were deciding also.

Just a note on the Lion UT1300s... Costco US has a pair of them for $1400 for the next couple of weeks... you may want to get 4 now
https://www.costco.com/lion-energy-s...100663833.html


Brad

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by RMcNeal

Just a few weeks ago, I ran across a you tube video where a Montana rep was talking about the solar flex prep coming on the new units. If memory serves, the video was put up by BTBRV (Big Truck, Big RV), but I can't seem to find it right now.

Sorry, I don't know the specific one you refer to, but here are some that I have viewed and liked...

For the Super Solar Flex package, I think this is the best video I've seen so far:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9RD4qmud0s

For the regular Solar Flex, Haylett RV explains it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCwwnzKTJSs&t=4s

And, this is a great explanation of the solar prep that comes with all new Montana's:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhE9pSum_nA&t=1s

For even more info on DIY with the basic Solar prep in all Montana's, I think this one is very thorough:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn3BIWaSb4c

I hope these are helpful; they were to me!

Brad

[rjdreyer]

Brad,

So on your set up.. you going RV fridge or residential. Did that impact any buying decision on the super solar or regular solar system.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by rjdreyer

Brad,

So on your set up.. you going RV fridge or residential. Did that impact any buying decision on the super solar or regular solar system.

We are staying with the RV fridge, and yes I think that was part of the decision. Most 18-20 cu ft residential fridges consume 1.6-2.0kWh per day, so a significant load on a solar system. Also key will be to run the RV fridge on propane, as the RV fridge can burn a lot of power on 110v. In the Super Solar video above (first one), Matt gives some of the numbers for the RV fridge on 110v.

We have had good success with RV fridges, so are comfortable getting another. The only change, for hot weather, will be to add some fans for greater efficiency.


Brad

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by kowbra

So, I talked to the Super Solar designer, Matt, today and learned a few more details; for those who may be interested in this solution...

-the AC units are not just a soft start added. They draw 9 amps when running, so much more efficient than normal roof top units
-they are now adding 300 watt panels for a total of 1200 watts (noted earlier)
-they will be upgrading the MPPT charge controllers to dual 45 amp models
....

Sorry, I was confused on the controller upgrades... the factory is not planning to upgrade the controllers and will stay with dual 30 amp MPPT controllers. The dual 45 amp controllers was recommended as an upgrade path if one wanted to add more solar panels later.

My apologies for the misinformation; doesn't take much to confuse me some days

Brad

[Pamc]

Brad, you mentioned talking to Matt about the solar system. We just picked up our new unit and nobody really knows anything about the system at this dealership. We want to add two more batteries but no one knows how to do it. A call was made by the Service Manager to Matt but he did not respond. Do you have a good way to get in touch with him?

Pam

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by Pamc

Brad, you mentioned talking to Matt about the solar system. We just picked up our new unit and nobody really knows anything about the system at this dealership. We want to add two more batteries but no one knows how to do it. A call was made by the Service Manager to Matt but he did not respond. Do you have a good way to get in touch with him?

Pam

Hi Pam,

A couple of thoughts...
First is that I also spoke to Sam Lengerich who is the Montana Product Manager. He indicated to me that they see the factory as providing primary support for the Super Solar Flex as it is not something that fits with the typical support that dealers are used to providing.

Next, I will PM you the email addresses for Sam and for Matt. Between the two of them, I'm sure you can get the help you need.

Brad

[Pamc]

I posted this on my Facebook a couple of weeks ago but thought I'd post it here as well. Thanks to Kowbra we were able to contact Matt Wolkins at Future Solutions, who designed the Super Solar Flex for Montana. We set up appt after picking up our trailer in Michigan.

Ok, the new batteries have been installed by Future Solutions supervised by Matt Wolkins in Elkhart, Indiana. They are the geniuses who developed the Super Solar Package for the Keystone Montana. We have four 265 watt solar panels. Unfortunately, there was no room on the roof to add any more panels to our Montana 3120 (35 footer). We now have 4 Dragonfly 250 amp hr lithium batteries for a total of 1000 ah. There was just enough room to install the 2 extra batteries without taking more from basement storage. Matt said we are the prototype for a future offering of a Super Solar 4 battery option. They want to make sure it works well. Then there is the 3000 watt inverter. We stayed in the parking lot of their facility for several days using just solar. We never got below 62% of our capacity-and that was with overcast skies.
We also had Future Solutions build a connection from the truck's alternator to the lithium batteries so they could be charged while we are driving or idling. We haven't tried to run the 2 air conditioners yet. But, we ran the furnace all night, watched TV, used the microwave, ran a cpap all night, water pump, and lights and still had 62% battery capacity left at 7:30 the next morning and then the it was up to 71% by 9:30am. We ended the day at 7:00pm with 83% capacity going into the evening and again had 62% the next morning.
After driving for 2 hours this morning we are up to 72%.
If we had full sunny days the figures would be much better. So far, we are very pleased!
The attached photos:... the Dragonfly battery and inside of solar box. Please note how much storage is lost due to solar package. Even with that we are very pleased!

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by Pamc

I posted this on my Facebook a couple of weeks ago but thought I'd post it here as well. Thanks to Kowbra we were able to contact Matt Wolkins at Future Solutions, who designed the Super Solar Flex for Montana. We set up appt after picking up our trailer in Michigan.

Ok, the new batteries have been installed by Future Solutions supervised by Matt Wolkins in Elkhart, Indiana. They are the geniuses who developed the Super Solar Package for the Keystone Montana. We have four 265 watt solar panels. Unfortunately, there was no room on the roof to add any more panels to our Montana 3120 (35 footer). We now have 4 Dragonfly 250 amp hr lithium batteries for a total of 1000 ah. There was just enough room to install the 2 extra batteries without taking more from basement storage. Matt said we are the prototype for a future offering of a Super Solar 4 battery option. They want to make sure it works well. Then there is the 3000 watt inverter. We stayed in the parking lot of their facility for several days using just solar. We never got below 62% of our capacity-and that was with overcast skies.
We also had Future Solutions build a connection from the truck's alternator to the lithium batteries so they could be charged while we are driving or idling. We haven't tried to run the 2 air conditioners yet. But, we ran the furnace all night, watched TV, used the microwave, ran a cpap all night, water pump, and lights and still had 62% battery capacity left at 7:30 the next morning and then the it was up to 71% by 9:30am. We ended the day at 7:00pm with 83% capacity going into the evening and again had 62% the next morning.
After driving for 2 hours this morning we are up to 72%.
If we had full sunny days the figures would be much better. So far, we are very pleased!
The attached photos:... the Dragonfly battery and inside of solar box. Please note how much storage is lost due to solar package. Even with that we are very pleased!

Pamc,

I'm so glad you were able to make the connections and get the work done. That was fast! And, thanks for posting the pictures, very helpful!

I am curious about the extra batteries and the truck charging solution. I have emailed Matt for more info.
If you are able, can you share the approximate pricing for the extra batteries and the truck charging setup?

Thanks again,
Brad

[Pamc]

OK, here's another post for those following our experience with the Super Solar Flex system on our new trailer.
It's 80 degrees and 80% humidity here in Florida where we are waiting to attend the SpaceX Falcon launch tonight.
We decided to do a test on the trailer's Solar to see how it ran on just Solar and no Shore Power.
Disconnected from Shore Power - it has been cloudy so panels are only generating 35.2v. I think that's the proper terminology...?
Appliances running: Everything except Refrigerator and Hot Water Heater (includes two air conditioners, lights, tv, radio, ceiling fan, hair dryer) The thermostat for the two air conditioners is set for 72 degrees.
10:15am - Batteries @ 100% load capacity -
11:15am - 89.2%
2:15pm - 50.6%
4:15pm - 34.6%
4:45pm - 16.7%
5:15pm -12.7%
Didn't want to take the batteries any lower - Reconnected to Shore Power.
So, Batteries held the Air Conditioners for Seven Hours. I think that's pretty good.
By 3:00am the Batteries were back to 100% - 10 hours to fully charge.
Pam

[Pamc]

Here is an update on our "lost trailer" post. This is about the responses we had from Keystone and Camping World?
This is the original post:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well, we found the trailer! After calling the Keystone Montana factory we received conflicting stories as to where the trailer was. When we went to the dealership here in Grand Rapids, Michigan this past Friday, 3 days ago!@, they told us it had not arrived. Our dealership in Utah was being told that it was on hold waiting for chairs! I finally was able to reach the factory rep for Michigan who said the records showed the trailer had shipped on the 12th! A week ago! He called the dealership and they got on the phone calling the 5 transportation companies to see who shipped it and where it was. We then got a call from our Utah dealership saying the trailer would arrive Monday (yesterday)! In the meantime... Ken had been eyeing a trailer in the dealership lot (we are staying right across the street from it) that looked like it was outfitted with the full solar package we had ordered. The factory had said they don't build very many since it's so new (and expensive!) He thought it odd because the dealership said they had not seen one of the solar units yet! He got out his binoculars to confirm that it was indeed a full solar unit. So, he went over to the lot to look at the trailer and the Vin# matched the Vin# on our contract!!! He went in and told the Sales Manager that our trailer was actually out on the lot! Come to find out, it had been there for a week!!!!! Obviously someone(s) dropped the ball... big time! Those someones better pay for our $100 a day hotel for the past four days!
The good news is that we should be able to move in tonight after they prep and go through all the systems in the trailer. It IS a beautiful trailer! And we are excited to put the full solar to the test! We will be able to run both air conditioners with the solar!
We feel it was divine intervention that we got a hotel room with a view of the lot! ...And that Ken had brought his binoculars! Will send more pictures later. This has been almost as surreal as the Coronavirus. "
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
*** We had many communications with Keystone...It was really NOT their fault! Except for the "factory rep" telling our Utah salesman it was still waiting for chairs. Still don't know exactly how that one happened. Once a trailer (purchased at Camping World) comes out of the factory, Camping World takes over. They have their own transportation system. That's where the communication failed. The right hand did not know what the left hand was doing. The trailer was shipped to the Michigan dealer but they nor our Utah dealer knew it was shipping. I wrote a letter to Marcus Lemonis, the CEO of Camping World. I got a call from the Corporate office apoligizing for all that happened. BUT, they were NOT willing to reimburse us for the hotel. 😒She didn't even really say very much - nothing like 'we will look at our communication policies.' They did call the General Manager for the Michigan dealership but I don't know what was said. Anyway, THAT WENT NOWHERE! So far, this situation is the only problem we've had with Camping World. Our dealership in Utah has been super great and the Service Manager in Michigan was particularly helpful in wanting to make things right. We really appreciate him! They let us stay at Camping World with hookups for several days while we got organized.

BUT, the Keystone Montana Production Manager was VERY helpful! He's the one who set up the installing of the extra batteries for our Super Solar Flex system. He even helped on some other issues. One being the King Sized Memory Foam Bed that we ordered to come in the trailer. We thought we looked at a 3120 model with a king bed but apparently we were mistaken. When we saw the one in our unit it was "no way!" The bed filled the whole room. You had to slide sideways between the wall and bed in order to get into bed. I like the roomy king size bed but not at the expense of comfortably getting around in the bedroom! So, I emailed Sam, the Production Manager, and surprisingly he offered to send us a Queen mattress at no charge! He was so awesome!! We just left the king size mattress with Solar Solutions (Matt picked up the mattress for us at the factory) to do what they wanted with it. I also have to say again how WONDERFUL everyone at Solar Solutions was to us! They let us stay at their facility after everything was installed so we could test the system out. We ended staying for several days. They let us have packages sent to their address. One even came after we left and they are USPing it to us. Matt has been wonderful in communications involving minor issues with the solar and even other issues that were not involving the solar.
We have moved on and are still LOVING the trailer! Have also posted some other information regarding testing the Super Solar System with air conditioners.

So fun to be here in Florida and see the rocket launches! Will report on that later.
Pam

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by Pamc

OK, here's another post for those following our experience with the Super Solar Flex system on our new trailer.
It's 80 degrees and 80% humidity here in Florida where we are waiting to attend the SpaceX Falcon launch tonight.
We decided to do a test on the trailer's Solar to see how it ran on just Solar and no Shore Power.
Disconnected from Shore Power - it has been cloudy so panels are only generating 35.2v. I think that's the proper terminology...?
Appliances running: Everything except Refrigerator and Hot Water Heater (includes two air conditioners, lights, tv, radio, ceiling fan, hair dryer) The thermostat for the two air conditioners is set for 72 degrees.
10:15am - Batteries @ 100% load capacity -
11:15am - 89.2%
2:15pm - 50.6%
4:15pm - 34.6%
4:45pm - 16.7%
5:15pm -12.7%
Didn't want to take the batteries any lower - Reconnected to Shore Power.
So, Batteries held the Air Conditioners for Seven Hours. I think that's pretty good.
By 3:00am the Batteries were back to 100% - 10 hours to fully charge.
Pam

Hi Pam,

Thank you for sharing your real world examples!

I think your results might answer some of the naysayers, on this forum and others... those who would say it won't work, or that you cannot run the whole coach including both AC units and the other appliances at the same time.... or those who say that you might get an hour or 2 at the most when using both ACs... clearly the system is a lot more than a few panels and batteries just thrown together. I think your experience is showing this is a well engineered and very capable system!

For the power output, is it possible you might have been seeing 35.2 amps? (it may have been volts but that seems high; the panels are rated at a working voltage of 30.6 volts...). Check the monitor again and see if it is reading out the amps or the volts. And, if you have it set to read out the volts, I would personally change it to read out the amps, as volts stay pretty constant while the amps vary a lot.

For a bit of math... I checked the specs, and your 265 watt panels are rated to output 8.66 amps at 30.6 volts. All 4 panels will output constant 30.6 volts, but you multiply the amps to get a total of 35 amps... so if you were actually seeing 35.2 amps, it was actually charging right at maximum...

And, just one other note you may check. I think you said you have 4@ 265 watt panels, so I've done the math as above. But, Montana announced a change a few weeks back to upgrade to 4@ 300 watt panels... so you may have the 300 watt panels. If your dealer doesn't know for sure, I'm sure Matt would.

Either way, the results are very positive. I look forward to hearing more reports as you use the system more. I am especially interested to see if you can start monitoring the amps and report back what you see in ideal full sun situations.

Thanks again, Pam, your post is very helpful!!!


Brad

[Pamc]

Kowbra,
I'm pretty sure we have the 256 panels. Both Sam an Matt are following me on Facebook. Let's see if they respond with a correction.

[66 Galaxie]

They switched from the 265w to the 300w on or around July 1st of this year. Both panels are physically the same size.

[BiggarView]

SOK 206AH LifePO4 12v $1150 on AMZN. Less if you buy direct. Even LFP geek Will Prouse is impressed by them.

[Speck56]

I have a solar story. 2020 3761FL. Solar has never worked. Jaboni disply only shows battery voltage. zeros on the panel side. Tech looked at it and says the MPPT Charger controller is defective. Long story short, I personnally took the basement walls down found the controller. 4 wires in. Simple. Flashing blue status light, should be solid in Arizona sun. Scratched my head and looked a little closer and reversed the panel wires. Neg to pos and back. Bingo. All good, works great. Factory solar. Does that mean at the factory or at the dealer? Should have caught it at the walk thru, but....

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by Speck56

I have a solar story. 2020 3761FL. Solar has never worked. Jaboni disply only shows battery voltage. zeros on the panel side. Tech looked at it and says the MPPT Charger controller is defective. Long story short, I personnally took the basement walls down found the controller. 4 wires in. Simple. Flashing blue status light, should be solid in Arizona sun. Scratched my head and looked a little closer and reversed the panel wires. Neg to pos and back. Bingo. All good, works great. Factory solar. Does that mean at the factory or at the dealer? Should have caught it at the walk thru, but....

Sorry to hear of your issues.
When I was talking with Sam Lengerich, the Montana Product Manager, he specifically told me that the factory was going to provide support for the solar systems, as they did not believe the dealers were ready and trained to do that.

Now, as to how well that works in practice, I haven't had to test it out yet. But, if you have any further issues, it may be worth a try to contact factory customer support directly.

hth
Brad