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Old 06-13-2008, 08:03 AM   #1
Ms McGyver
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New Units & Toilet Space

Allowing for the limitations inherently involved in building one of these units, why can't there be more space around the toilet? I've been told not to offer criticism without a solution so: Some manufacturers give more space by angling the "throne" into a corner. This allows some space for the elbows and a little more toe room.

A woman's needs are unique in the toilet spaces. We not only need space for our bodies, but our extended elbows as well. Guys need leg room, and some of our fellas are a little broader of beam than others. I know the male engineers have female counterparts, whether engineering counterparts or lifelong counterparts. Talk to them about all the possible uses a full-timing woman has for the toilet area. Then employ all considerations before designing another "throne" configuration.
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:55 AM   #2
Glenn and Lorraine
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At one time I would have agreed with you Lisa but not since we got our 07 3485A with the fully enclosed bathroom. Being a bit of a stout individual at 6' and over 300#s I have more than enuff room. Trouble is the 3485SA was discontinued after just one model year. Talk about being in the right place at the right time.
For the 08 model year they came out with the 3465SA and a 3605RL. While both of these floor plans have fully enclosed bathrooms both also have smaller bathrooms than our 3485SA and not to my liking at all. I did explain to Aram my feelings on this new floorplan and also said I would be waiting to trade when I see some additional bathroom space. He did indicate it's something they will have to look at.
As far as the open air space for the shower and vanity and the tiny throne room. I will never go back to that floor plan ever again. It is great to be able to do the 3- S's and not for one second disturb my sleeping DW.

The 3- S's?? Well, the 2nd is Shave and the 3rd is Shower. For fear of being edited/deleted I will let you guess the 1st.
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Old 06-13-2008, 02:57 PM   #3
dsprik
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ms McGyver

I've been told not to offer criticism without a solution so...
What? Who made that rule??? Maybe it was more of a "guideline"???

I have the 3400 with the extra small bathroom due to the front W/D closet space (that we would never give up). However, that toilet CAN be moved back with some carpentry/plumbing about 3 1/2 inches, which makes a world of difference according to MOCers who have made that modification.

I will attempt this myself when my shoulders are in better shape...
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Old 06-14-2008, 12:40 PM   #4
nailbender
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I agree with Glenn that the 3465SA does not have a much room in the bathroom as his does, but the toilet area is larger than the models with the separate toilet room. Keystone must have been listening to those of you that moved your toilets, as ours is less than 1" away from the back wall. We like having the enclosed bathroom especially when we have overnight guest. They don't feel like they are coming into our bedroom to use the bathroom.
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Old 06-14-2008, 08:37 PM   #5
D and M On The Road
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This topic is an extremely sore subject with me.

We have a 2002 3295RK and we will never buy a 5th wheel again with the small "water closet" and open bathroom concept. I absolutely agree with Ms McGyver, and then some. We also need much more room for elbows, legs, being able to stand up without hitting the wall in front of the "throne" and for some things I won't mention here. We always end up leaving the water closet door open and we close the sliding door at the top of the stairs but even that is not enough space.

I also agree with Glenn, who by the way disagreed with me several years ago when I vented about the small "water closet" & open bathroom design. If the hubby or myself had sat down on the throne before we bought the Montana, we would have NOT bought it and probably would have ended up with some other brand.

I am very sad to hear the 3485SA was discontinued. We are in the market for a new 5th wheel between now and the next couple of years. Hopefully the new rig will be a Montana but it will depend upon whether we can have a completely enclosed bathroom with space.

Enjoy your bathroom Glenn....*LOL..... we envy you with all that room!
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Old 06-15-2008, 04:50 PM   #6
sailer
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This is the biggest problem , yet they think they need better counter tops in the kit than the room in the john,,,, sailer
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Old 06-16-2008, 02:56 AM   #7
Waynem
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I have a 3400RL (Mfg'd May 2007)

Both my knees have had the ACL's reconstructed and bending them back is painful. My size 12 feet get in the way of the wall in front of the toilet. I'm seriously considering making a box type opening for the feet slide into as relief. If I were real handy I'd move the "Sealand," back. I tried a "riser" but DW's feet dangled. The riser worked for my knees, but was uncomfortable in other areas.

Had I tried out this area before purchase I may have reconsidered my purchas plans.

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Old 06-16-2008, 07:26 AM   #8
Ms McGyver
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Glenn, the criticism was on the NEW models!
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Old 06-16-2008, 08:43 AM   #9
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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We bought the 3585SA because it met our needs, #1 of which was an enclosed bathroom. The way the door opens is inconvenient, but I'll take that over the open shower and sink because we do have grandkids with us a lot, and sometimes I prefer more privacy than they'll give me when they're on board! Previously, we owned a very old Cardinal 5th-wheeler that had the split bath setup. The sink and a shirt closet were located on the right as you came up the steps to the bedroom, and the toilet and shower were on the left. That wasn't a bad situation because we had a lot of room around the sink. If we buy a bigger unit before we hit the road fulltime, a separate bathroom will be #1 on the "must have" list. (Keystone, hope you are listening!!!!)

Carolyn
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:23 AM   #10
Mrs. CountryGuy
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Lordy, I know you all like your enclosed baths, but there are some of us that prefer the other kind, so, I hope that Keystone does not do away with the seperate potty room.

Believe me, they are reading this forum, and do changes we scream and yell about (not all of them, but some).

When everyone was screaming for larger beds, had to have the king size, so, they accomodated, and the loser was the bath sink, and other stuff. Like the sliding doors between the bed and bath area.

Some people don't want a king size bed, and sure did not like the losses incurred by that change.

Beware of what you ask for, cause you might get it.

As usual, some changes are just the cat's meow for you, but, would be a sure deal killer for others. If Keystone keeps offering several different options, hopefully we can all find what suits our fancy the bestest.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:44 AM   #11
Glenn and Lorraine
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Although we love our fully enclosed bathroom and many many folks have agreed with us that it is the only way to go.
Having said that I doubt very seriously that Montana or any other manufacturer with change all floor plans to fully enclosed.
Quote:
quote:D & M....I also agree with Glenn, who by the way disagreed with me several years ago when I vented about the small "water closet" & open bathroom design. If the hubby or myself had sat down on the throne before we bought the Montana, we would have NOT bought it and probably would have ended up with some other brand.
Don't recall the situation but when we had no other choice I saw nothing wrong with the old split set up. The size of Water Closest was one of the reasons I bought the Montana. Being over 300# and 6' tall was a problem when we were looking for a 5er. We looked at the Cougar, Sand Piper and a few others. In most every case when I sat in the WC my shoulders were tight against the walls. When I sat in the Montana I had inches of room on both sides. Nothing Earth shattering but a whole lot better than many other SOBs. I had sufficient leg room after I added a riser. Would I ever go back to that layout??? Not on my life.


BTW--Strictly a passing thought on Aram's side but he mentioned possibly looking into having the bath and bedroom as one slide. Sounds very intriguing to say the least. Only problem I could see with that idea is accessing the basement. The basement doors would have to be under the slide making it a bit more difficult getting to the convenience center but it just might be worth it.
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:04 AM   #12
Ms McGyver
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That sounds like a #1 solution! Put part of the bathroom on the slide, the other remains stationary to give plenty of floorspace between the plumbing. If it's going on the slide, perhaps both doors could now be pocket doors. They take up more wall space but allow more functionality. While we're dreaming, why not add cabinetry for a small linen closet while we're at it.

I'd still need the throne to be usable for emergency potty stops while en route though. Now that we've got the Monty, the thought of using a gas station toilet is totally disgusting.
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:48 AM   #13
PowellsMonty
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They may be small but... I admit I am getting real spoiled! I can still remember tents and joining the bears in the woods!
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Old 06-17-2008, 08:20 AM   #14
Bill-N-Donna
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Our bath is the split concept (3295rk). However, a previous owner made some changes. They removed the door and the entire closet making the bath one large room. As others have mentioned it may not give the privacy that you want but it works well for us. I would not want to close it back the way it was originally. The door between the bath and the main living area is enough privacy for us.
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Old 06-19-2008, 05:58 AM   #15
krtam
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Hey Keystone,

How about opposing slides in the bedroom. Saw that in SOB and it sure gave alot more space in the bedroom and bathroom.

Sharon
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Old 06-21-2008, 11:25 AM   #16
richfaa
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Space is at a premium in a camper and I think the designers try to give us the most space where we spend the most time. The john facilities are small but how many hours a day do we spend in there.
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Old 06-21-2008, 03:14 PM   #17
MacDR50
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The enclosed washroom was a must for us and we chose the 3585SA. My toilet is slightly angled, whether by design or accident, but we seem to have enough room. The sliding door to the bedroom has a lot of ground clearance and neither door is equipped with a privacy set or latch. I found that odd.
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Old 06-22-2008, 08:21 AM   #18
richfaa
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You can angle the toilet to where you want it .Loosen that band that hold the top to the base and angle it where you want it..
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:57 PM   #19
Ms McGyver
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The problem with changing the angle is that the black tank plumbing needs to be in the corner!
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:18 PM   #20
richfaa
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You can't change where the pipe comes through the floor but the base and the top of the john are seperate units joined together by that wire band.loosen the band and angle the top part, the base does not move....it helps some. They did that while we were at the service center last year.
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