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08-09-2019, 06:34 AM
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#1
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Macomb
Posts: 88
M.O.C. #21413
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Black water handle stuck closed
Hey all,
We've got a 2018 3720RL and I went to dump the other day and the black water handle is stuck in the closed position. 2 weeks ago I dumped and did a full spray clean and it worked fine. Now it won't even move. I did push it in hard to close cause I thought it was leaking a little bit after dumping. My unit is 4 season so the underbelly is closed and the valve is hid. Since the handle is wire operated could it be binding? Anyone ever have this issue? Thanks in advance.
Bob
__________________
Kemo & Gayle
2018 Montana 3720rl
2017 F-350 Lariat Supercab
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08-09-2019, 07:02 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Catoosa
Posts: 785
M.O.C. #18384
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There must be a hundred posts on this malady. Do a search, but basically you just need to replace at least your black and grey valves and cables with Valterra peices.
__________________
2015 3100RL legacy...2005 Ford F-250 CC SB. Tows like a charm! 4/19 Updated to 2017 Chevy 3500 CC SB SRW -hope it tows as well as my F 250 did!
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08-09-2019, 07:28 AM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lake Gaston
Posts: 8,773
M.O.C. #12156
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Montana units traditionally have had closed underbellys. See if you can open by pulling the cable with a pair of vicegrips. If it will not move, you will have to get in the underbelly and look. Binding has been a problem for many because the cables are too long, kick up, and are often installed incorrectly. Once you get to the valve, you can disconnect the cable and manually dump your tank.
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Mike and Lorraine
2002 3655 FL, 2005 3650RK
2010 3665RE, 2015 3910FB
F350 crew cab dually 6.7
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08-09-2019, 08:07 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Trinidad, TX
Posts: 506
M.O.C. #20746
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The same thing happened to us this past May. Had to take several of the "nails" out of the coroplast to pull it down far enough to get to the valve. Disconnected the cable and manually opened the valve by hand. I ordered a new 3" Valterra valve and cable and replaced the original valve and cable. I used hex head screws to put the coroplast back in place. BTW this project is not a fun one.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie Longhorn 4X4 Dually Cummins Aisin CC LB / B&W Companion hitch
50 Gallon Transfer Flow in bed tank w/ Trax 3
2018 Montana 3121RL
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08-09-2019, 03:54 PM
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#5
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Site Team
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Colorado Rockies
Posts: 1,986
M.O.C. #19755
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Tearing things apart might be a little premature. Mine did this the first year I had it. Some WD40 and a little extra force (what have you got to lose; if it breaks then you can tear into it) and it might come free. The problems with mine was the dump valves are located directly below the water connections. When water dripped on my black tank handle, the solid metal part rusted into its sleeve. I worked it free and now I keep them coated with white grease; no problems since.
Upgrading to Valtera valves and push rods is a good idea, but you may not have to at this point.
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Scott & Alta
2017 Montana 3160RL, Legacy, Onan 5.5Kw, Solar
2022 F-450 Lariat Ultimate
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08-09-2019, 04:09 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sioux Falls
Posts: 664
M.O.C. #10985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KemoLondon
Hey all,
We've got a 2018 3720RL and I went to dump the other day and the black water handle is stuck in the closed position. 2 weeks ago I dumped and did a full spray clean and it worked fine. Now it won't even move. I did push it in hard to close cause I thought it was leaking a little bit after dumping. My unit is 4 season so the underbelly is closed and the valve is hid. Since the handle is wire operated could it be binding? Anyone ever have this issue? Thanks in advance.
Bob
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Spray shaft with handle liberal with WD 40 or similar. At the same time try turning the handle and shaft in the housing. It is like a bicycle brake cable and it rusts. Keep it lubricated with lithium grease.
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08-09-2019, 08:12 PM
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#7
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Pacheco
Posts: 69
M.O.C. #18133
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Not sure what your utility bay looks like but on my 3610 model if you unscrew the white plastic panel on the side you’ll find the back of the cable and can follow it a ways down into the underbelly. You might find a bunch of extra cable looped around. You might be able to unscrew the cable off the wall and pull out the excess enough to get it to operate. Then of course you have to figure out what to do with the excess cable. The Valterra valves let you cut the cable to length along with better crimps around the handle.
__________________
Mike and Karol
2015 Montana 3610
2014 Chevy 3500 dually
Full time since 2015
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08-11-2019, 06:19 PM
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#8
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Macomb
Posts: 88
M.O.C. #21413
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Thanks All. Update: Pulled down underbelly and valve was ok. Disconnected and dumped into a honey wagon. Then undid cable and YEP the cable was rusted enough to jam up the handle. WD40 and some elbow grease and broke it free. Will put grease on it now as suggested. At least now I know how to find and fix issue for the gray tank handles...lol.
__________________
Kemo & Gayle
2018 Montana 3720rl
2017 F-350 Lariat Supercab
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08-11-2019, 08:22 PM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Livermore
Posts: 5,182
M.O.C. #1920
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Kemo, a number of us have replaced with new Valterra solid wire cables. Glad you got it working. If you decide to replace the valves, you might want to consider SeaLevel gage install at the same time. I was fortunate and had some MOC friends assist me greatly with the install of both.
__________________
Ron and Terrie Ames plus Meg - MOC #1920/KF0NTA
2021Montana 3230CK Super Solar+ Legacy Package
2021 Ram 3500 Laramie Longhorn, BIM Charging
4x4, SRW, LB, Crew Cab, Pullrite 3900 Hitch
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08-18-2019, 02:14 PM
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#10
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Established Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Renton
Posts: 34
M.O.C. #21079
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that just happened us. I used WD-40 and channel lock pliers to twist the cable about 90 degrees left then right several times to loosen it up. The problem I think in my rig is that the water connections are right over the Black Tank handle.
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08-18-2019, 02:33 PM
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#11
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Austin
Posts: 226
M.O.C. #18363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KemoLondon
Hey all,
We've got a 2018 3720RL and I went to dump the other day and the black water handle is stuck in the closed position. 2 weeks ago I dumped and did a full spray clean and it worked fine. Now it won't even move. I did push it in hard to close cause I thought it was leaking a little bit after dumping. My unit is 4 season so the underbelly is closed and the valve is hid. Since the handle is wire operated could it be binding? Anyone ever have this issue? Thanks in advance.
Bob
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If someone put a baby wipe or other non degradable matter down the toilet, they tend to hang up on the valve plate that is opening when you pull the cable. When you "force" push it closed (because it's slow dripping) it will cause the plate to get stuck and you will have a problem pulling it back open. You have to get to the waste valve (cut a small square in the coroplast underneath) and remove it, inspect and clean it to see if it will seal properly after any matter is removed. If not you can choose to replace just the gaskets or the whole waste gate valve. Should take about an hour. Or you can take it to someone to do it, should take a day.
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08-18-2019, 02:49 PM
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#12
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New Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Key West
Posts: 4
M.O.C. #23259
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I had this same issue from day 1 with my 2019 3931fb. All of the valves worked effortlessly except the front black valve. I had two guys simultaneously pulling on it with all of their weight and it wouldn’t move. I tore the under belly off thinking I was going to need to replace the valve. Luckily, just before I started taking the valve off the tank to replace it,, one of the guys had the idea to take the black handle off, take the stop nut off that holds the cable on the white panel, and he then grabbed the rod (that the cable is connected to) with one set of vice-grips, and then grabbed the housing that the rod slips through with another set of Vice-grips. He very lightly twisted the two and it freed it up. Ever since, every time I empty the black tank I spray that rod (that the black handle is connected to) with white lithium grease and I have never had another issue with it seizing up, works perfectly like the other 3. It seems that this is either an issue with an imperfection in the housing that the rod slides through or maybe even electrolysis since they are two different types of metal. Hope this helps.
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08-19-2019, 10:01 AM
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#13
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Established Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Williamsburg
Posts: 32
M.O.C. #21510
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We have had this problem twice in the 1 1/2 years we have had our 2018 3791RD. We have been told it is due to it having an extra long cable run on the black valve. Hubby sprays it with every single dump since it happened the first time, but it didn't keep it from happening again. Both times they replaced the entire valve and cable. Luckily it is under an extended warranty...but since this is a regular occurrence you would think Keystone would come up with a better fix.
__________________
Linda & Michael Vergakis
2018 Montana 3791RD
2019 F350 Lariat CC DRW LB 4x4 Diesel
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08-19-2019, 10:17 AM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hixson
Posts: 3,436
M.O.C. #11397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WA_Steve
The problem I think in my rig is that the water connections are right over the Black Tank handle.
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Not trying to be critical but this shouldn't be a problem unless you have a leak that you shouldn't have. We are on our 3rd Montana while full timing for almost 9 years and ours had the same layout and no problems with leaks or sticking valves.
__________________
2018.5 Montana 3791RD
Full Timers 9/1/2010 through 1/16/2020.
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08-19-2019, 11:56 AM
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#15
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Established Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Williamsburg
Posts: 32
M.O.C. #21510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeBeFulltime
Not trying to be critical but this shouldn't be a problem unless you have a leak that you shouldn't have. We are on our 3rd Montana while full timing for almost 9 years and ours had the same layout and no problems with leaks or sticking valves.
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Unless you had the same exact model all three times it wouldn't be the same. Each one has a different routing and different cable length from what I have been told. The one with the longest is the 3791RD. It isn't just the binding up. First time happened to us after about 9 months..just wouldn't budge when handle was pulled. They replaced it all. Second time was about 7 months after that. Hubby sprayed cable every time he dumped to make sure that wasn't the issue. When it failed the second time it came out way further than it was supposed to and didn't open the valve. The service guy said part of the problem was a stripped plastic screw that the cable attached to..but that the long cable is problematic with that model. It was completely replaced again. Counting down to see how long it lasts this time!
__________________
Linda & Michael Vergakis
2018 Montana 3791RD
2019 F350 Lariat CC DRW LB 4x4 Diesel
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08-19-2019, 02:12 PM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hixson
Posts: 3,436
M.O.C. #11397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaV
Unless you had the same exact model all three times it wouldn't be the same. Each one has a different routing and different cable length from what I have been told. The one with the longest is the 3791RD. It isn't just the binding up. First time happened to us after about 9 months..just wouldn't budge when handle was pulled. They replaced it all. Second time was about 7 months after that. Hubby sprayed cable every time he dumped to make sure that wasn't the issue. When it failed the second time it came out way further than it was supposed to and didn't open the valve. The service guy said part of the problem was a stripped plastic screw that the cable attached to..but that the long cable is problematic with that model. It was completely replaced again. Counting down to see how long it lasts this time!
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My comment had nothing to do with cable routing or length but the fact that water was apparently leaking onto the valve handle in the convenience center and that shouldn't be happening.
__________________
2018.5 Montana 3791RD
Full Timers 9/1/2010 through 1/16/2020.
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08-19-2019, 03:32 PM
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#17
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lake Havasu City AZ.
Posts: 1,811
M.O.C. #10552
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No I had the same problem. Water can and does leak down on to the cable when you attach or remove the water hoses. Good work Keystone engineers, putting the cable handles under the water hookups. How about putting them above the water hookups out of harms way.
__________________
Wayne and Ann Moore
2015 Ford F-350 King Ranch
Firestone air bags, bed saver.
Add 40 GAL tank in bed.
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08-19-2019, 04:18 PM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: westminster md
Posts: 2,328
M.O.C. #17894
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I replaced all of our valves and cables with Valltera. Upon removing the coroplast underbelly, its no wonder the stock set up did not last long. They use stock length cables to get from point A to B. Some runs were way longer than needed, some were way to short. The cables are supposed to go straight back from the pull handle at least 6" and make minimal bends with no more than a 24" radius 180 degree turn. The cables are also supposed to be anchored within close proximity of the handle and the valve itself and along the way.
I followed these rules and custom cut my cables to a size that was not to long or short. I anchored them as stated above and they have preformed flawlessly. They open and close with 2 fingers.
I moved the galley tank handle towards the front (out from under the slide through the frame) into an unused hole in the middle level up leg bracket. Its cable is 10 foot long and operates with ease.
__________________
2018 Chevy 3500 LTZ Dually Diesel 4x4 CCLB
2011 Montana 3455 SA. 6 point level up. Disc brakes. Curt Q24 Hitch. 5 step glow steps
Progressive EMS. Valterra tank valves. Sailun G637 tires. ARP fridge control. All led lighting. Mor Ryde IS
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08-20-2019, 06:14 AM
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#19
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Established Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: MADISON
Posts: 41
M.O.C. #19296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WA_Steve
...The problem I think in my rig is that the water connections are right over the Black Tank handle.
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We had the same problem not long ago. Finally had to replace the cable, and while I was at it I got a short length of flat plastic and put a little "shed roof" over the valves, so any incidental dripping from the water connections doesn't run right down over them. It's working so far.
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08-28-2019, 12:26 PM
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#20
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 68
M.O.C. #10340
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Electric Waste Valves
We have a 2007 3400RL and luckily have not had a problem with our waste tank valves (touch wood). BUT, the Galley tank pull is between the 2 wheels and goes through the main frame. Basically, it is awkward to get at.
Has anyone replaced their Galley waste tank valve with an electric one?
__________________
2018 Denali 3500 SRW
2007 3400RL
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