Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum - View Single Post

rickfox · 07-17-2006, 04:01 PM

David and JoAnna,

JD Gallant, the one time head of the RV Consumer Group (I'm not sure he is still part of the organization) wrote a book back in 2003 titled "How to Select, Inspect, and Buy an RV (395 pages). This Group is also known as RV.ORG, and is the most prominent group that yearly "rates" the quality, value and safety of the many RV's manufactured.

In his book, he states that that for two people, the typical load carried is:

for vacationing - 1000# or 500# per person
for snowbirding - 1500#
for fulltiming - 2,000#

all of which are within the limits of the 3400. He also stated that the 2,000# figure is the most often exceeded figure, since many fulltimers tend to slowly pick up stuff they often no longer use. He stresses the idea of striving to limit the "un-needed stuff" that is often carried.

How much you will/can carry, whether or not you wish to stay legal by not exceeding the GVWR of the trailer, or not exceeding the the GCVWR of the truck, etc. are all questions you must answer for yourself.

Keystone has designed the Montana to fit into the "typical" marketplace with respect to cargo requirements, and TV size - which typically includes the 3/4 and 1 ton TV. The typical heavy duty TV has a GCVWR of around 22K - 23K# range, with truck weights in the 7K - 8K#. This leaves a typical maximum trailer weight of 14K - 15K#. I believe that is why Montana utilizes 6K# axles rather than the 7K# axles.

For example, if you add the 3400RL advertised dry weight of 11650 to the cargo capacity of 2325, you get 13,975#. Subtract the advertised hitchpin weight of 1975 and you have 12,000# left to be supported by the axles. A great percentage of 5ver manufacturers use this approach in specing their trailers. The only way to "specwise" increase the carrying capacity is to use higher capacity axles, or increase the pin weight. This is exactly what hitchhiker does. If you want more cargo capacity, you buy the 7K axles, rims and larger tires, and you have it. No other changes.

If you take a look at most of the larger sized 5vrs that also have the large cargo capacities, you will find they typically have the 7K# axles, with dry weights in the 12K+ range, 3K - 4K cargo capacities, and GVWR in the 15K - 17K range. Almost all of these are too heavy for the typical 3/4 and 1 ton TV's. This is not Montana's market space.

What it boils down to is the Montana has been designed to fit the needs of the typical vacationer and the snowbirder, and perhaps also to the weight consious fulltimer.

However, if you really want to fulltime and carry a lot, you also will need a heavy duty TV to get the job done.

PS

Here's another thought. In specing their trailers, Montana (and most other manufacturers for that matter) do not assume that any of the added cargo weight will be carried by the hitch pin. But such it not typically the case. Most of the 3400 owners will likely agree that their loaded hitch pin weights are pushing 2500# or more. That being the case, the total trailer could weigh in at 14,500# before axle limits would be reached. Although the GVWR of the trailer would be exceeded (a somewhat bogus number anyway) you would be carrying a load of 2850#. Is this still safe? - I think so. Is this legal? I'm not sure, but probably not. Is this for you? You must decide.

I'm sure some will disagree with the above, but that's OK since I can't remember the time that everyone did.

07-17-2006, 04:01 PM	#25
rickfox Montana Master Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Royse City Posts: 520 M.O.C. #2959	David and JoAnna, JD Gallant, the one time head of the RV Consumer Group (I'm not sure he is still part of the organization) wrote a book back in 2003 titled "How to Select, Inspect, and Buy an RV (395 pages). This Group is also known as RV.ORG, and is the most prominent group that yearly "rates" the quality, value and safety of the many RV's manufactured. In his book, he states that that for two people, the typical load carried is: for vacationing - 1000# or 500# per person for snowbirding - 1500# for fulltiming - 2,000# all of which are within the limits of the 3400. He also stated that the 2,000# figure is the most often exceeded figure, since many fulltimers tend to slowly pick up stuff they often no longer use. He stresses the idea of striving to limit the "un-needed stuff" that is often carried. How much you will/can carry, whether or not you wish to stay legal by not exceeding the GVWR of the trailer, or not exceeding the the GCVWR of the truck, etc. are all questions you must answer for yourself. Keystone has designed the Montana to fit into the "typical" marketplace with respect to cargo requirements, and TV size - which typically includes the 3/4 and 1 ton TV. The typical heavy duty TV has a GCVWR of around 22K - 23K# range, with truck weights in the 7K - 8K#. This leaves a typical maximum trailer weight of 14K - 15K#. I believe that is why Montana utilizes 6K# axles rather than the 7K# axles. For example, if you add the 3400RL advertised dry weight of 11650 to the cargo capacity of 2325, you get 13,975#. Subtract the advertised hitchpin weight of 1975 and you have 12,000# left to be supported by the axles. A great percentage of 5ver manufacturers use this approach in specing their trailers. The only way to "specwise" increase the carrying capacity is to use higher capacity axles, or increase the pin weight. This is exactly what hitchhiker does. If you want more cargo capacity, you buy the 7K axles, rims and larger tires, and you have it. No other changes. If you take a look at most of the larger sized 5vrs that also have the large cargo capacities, you will find they typically have the 7K# axles, with dry weights in the 12K+ range, 3K - 4K cargo capacities, and GVWR in the 15K - 17K range. Almost all of these are too heavy for the typical 3/4 and 1 ton TV's. This is not Montana's market space. What it boils down to is the Montana has been designed to fit the needs of the typical vacationer and the snowbirder, and perhaps also to the weight consious fulltimer. However, if you really want to fulltime and carry a lot, you also will need a heavy duty TV to get the job done. PS Here's another thought. In specing their trailers, Montana (and most other manufacturers for that matter) do not assume that any of the added cargo weight will be carried by the hitch pin. But such it not typically the case. Most of the 3400 owners will likely agree that their loaded hitch pin weights are pushing 2500# or more. That being the case, the total trailer could weigh in at 14,500# before axle limits would be reached. Although the GVWR of the trailer would be exceeded (a somewhat bogus number anyway) you would be carrying a load of 2850#. Is this still safe? - I think so. Is this legal? I'm not sure, but probably not. Is this for you? You must decide. I'm sure some will disagree with the above, but that's OK since I can't remember the time that everyone did.