[Cat320]

Damn fellas...I go to bed, get up and run some errands and we are four more pages in this thread. I'm just getting around to answering rickfox's first post:

"If what you say is true that loading to the rear to reduce pin weight is bad, then you shouldn't have purchased a Montana 5th wheel! That is exactly what Montana has done to reduce their pin weights. And, don't forget that it was Montana that placed the fresh water tank at the rear of many of the Montana models. Are you suggesting that it should not be used for fear that it will upset the balance of the trailer? Please explain to me why you apparently profess to know more than Montana or Lippert about this matter!"

- Of course they're trying to keep the pw down...they want all us good customers to think we can pull them with 3/4s. However, virtually all cargo goes partially on the pin in the storage compartment forward of the axles...which offsets the water tank, which most of us (those not trying to reduce pw) keep only partially filled. Don't claim to know more than Montana/Lippert, just have a good grasp of the obvious and 35 years of towing experience.

"If reducing the pin weight to a more manageable number is bad design then perhaps you need to follow your convictions - and knowledge - or lack thereof, and get rid of these badly designed trailers."

- We don't need to reduce the pw, our one ton trucks can handle it. Also, I would suggest you not make comments about a posters knowledge or lack of knowledge. You have no idea what knowledge/training/experience the rest of us have. I have been teaching this subject (with an FAA license) since 1980, and know a bit about weight, balance and what can happen when basic principals are not incompliance with the laws of physics.

"The truth is that maintaining a minimum of 15% of the total weight is good engineering, and good loading practice. The more balanced the overall unit, the better, as long as it has the above mentioned load percentage toward the pin. Too heavy a pin weight is just as bad as too light a load. If I were to believe you - which I don't because I know better - I would carry the whole trailer on the back of my truck."

- 15% is the minimum on the pin...20% would be ideal...half way between the recommeded guidelines of 15 and 25. However, that position cannot be supported by 3/4 owners...they would be way over weight.

"By the way, I wonder how many holes Montana drills in the I-beams of those "certified" frames during the manufacture of a 5th wheeler. I'll bet there are 50 holes just to hold up the bottom insulation. Guess that means none of us have "certified" frames, and the warranties are void on all of them!"

- Sorry, don't follow this theme, who said anything about frames and I beams?

"My point here is that the objective of this site should be to meaningfully discuss issues, and pass along worthwhile information, and not for people to simply pass judgement on things they know very little about.

It is just flat wrong to not know your weights, and to properly manage them. And piling more weight onto the pin without regard to proper weight management is just poor judgement!"

- Agree that the purpose of this site is to have meaningful discussions of issues and to pass on worthwhile information. Unfortunately, what they turn into is people with under sized vehicles trying to justify their under sized trucks. Can't afford a new one, can't use it as a daily driver, won't fit in the garage, this one pulls fine, never had a problem, ad neauseam. We have several posters on the site who proudly tell us they have 2800 and 3100 lb pin weight. Anybody, who knows anything about towing, knows that these two vehicles are over weight before even the driver gets in the truck to add his weight. Then there's my favorite...the guy who says he has no clue what his rig weighs, but the truck pulls it fine, therefore he's happy! When your vehicle does not have the capacity to do what you want it to, you cannot have any 'proper weight management.' The comment about 'piling more weight on the pin' makes no sense at all.

"And one more little comment. When large flatbed trucks pass by, take a look at many of the main I-beams that support the entire structure of the flat bed trailers. You will see that many of them have hugh holes in those beams. This is in part to reduce weight. These holes have very little effect on the strength of the I-beam. Ask any knowledgeable mechanical engineer, and you will find that I'm correct!"

- Sorry, don't follow this thread, nobody said anything about flatbeds or I beams.

And one from the latest post above:

"The empty pin weight on my 3400RL was 1960#. The GVWR of my 3/4 ton Chevy allows me to carry an additional 430# of pin weight. When loaded to this limit of 2380#, my trailer axle weight is 11267# and GVW of the trailer is 13,657. Since my dry weight was 11860#, my cargo weighs 1797#."

I read this to mean the total cargo capacity of your 2500HD (the data from the rear door) is 2380, and that your actual pw is 1960, the same as the empty pw. If this is true, how did our fellow posters come up with pws of nearly 3000? Empty vs actual is usually different. However, for discussion purposes, we'll assume that your pw is 1960, that means you have 420 (2380 - 1960) for all the weight you will put in the truck (driver, passengers, hitch weight, tools, fuel, cargo, etc)...NOT extra pw as you stated. No way the GVWR is under 9200...unless you are the only RVer around that has an actual pw and empty pw that are the same, and travels with an empty truck.