Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum

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Gramps 12-24-2008 03:07 PM

The great truck debate
I hate when I see new toys. It's even worse when what I have is just fine. I have a 2000 F-350 SD Dually with a 7.3 PSD and a 6 speed manual tranny, this is a towing machine. Then, I saw a new Dodge 3500 crew cab, long bed, CTD, dually. I'd love a new truck, but don't really need one. The 7.3 Powerstroke turbo diesel is a tank, but the Cummins ain't no slouch either. I like the 6 speed manual, but my wife would love to be able to drive a fat bottom rig again, and an automatic would make that easier ( of course then I loose the truck to her). Mileage on the CTD is probably better than the PSD, but I'd be looking at bigger monthly payments with the new Dodge. I'm loosing my hair over this debate, oh, wait.... I don't have any hair.
Anybody with an opinion is more than welcome to take a jab. Go ahead and make me feel bad, I can take it.:D

ole dude 12-24-2008 03:34 PM

Keep the Ford and buy the Dodge. :D

H. John Kohl 12-24-2008 03:55 PM

That Dodge with the automatic and Exhaust brake is the big difference. The automatic would almost make me upgrade.
Good luck with the Hair Pulling.
Merry Christmas.

Waynem 12-24-2008 04:56 PM

Put two trucks of equal capacity and engines together except for the transmissions, tie them back end to back end and have a pulling contest. The automatic will out torque the manual and win every time.

I don't think there is much gained in a manual transmission, but agree with keep old and buy new.

DarMar 12-24-2008 05:00 PM

Ah, yes the needs versus wants discussion. Two years ago it was an Inferno Red model (as per our signature) that really caught the DW's eye and of course then we really wanted it. Hey it's Christmas, if you agree to buy the Dodge with an automatic then you finally have your shopping done and just in time.

hookman 12-24-2008 06:35 PM

The 6 speed auto and exhaust brake work great with the 6.7 CTD and well worth the upgrade.

Bob Pasternak 12-25-2008 02:03 AM

[8D] The problem with keeping the Ford and buying the Dodge is that the Ford will rust away. Once you tow with a Cummins, you'll not be happy in anything less. [8D]

richfaa 12-25-2008 02:36 AM

We have the 08 F-350 and it is a beast. The Ford had the largest tow capacity It is also the heaviest truck by far. We are partial to the Cummings diesel and in our opinion there is no better diesel in its class.(having put several hundred thousand miles on the Cummings diesel) The Dodge truck just did not meet our needs. Any of the big three will handle any Rv in its towing range with no trouble at all. Bob, Bob, Shame, shame. We have had 3 Chevys and two Fords in the last 11 years and none of them rusted out..:). I do wish however they would put a Cummings in that big ole Ford truck. In terms of MPG with the new EPA standards trucks all of us here pulling similar weight campers with similar trucks are doing within 1MPG or so of one another. I would like to see those numbers if they all weighed the same as the big ole Ford
(mine is 9217 lbs)ready to pull.Have had both the Auto and manual and prefer the auto for towing.

IMO , with the big three in the condition they are in and with restructuring in the future I would buy the new big truck now as there may be fewer choices or no choices in the near future. I do not believe that the big trucks we use for towing are going to survive cost cutting and restructuring. We are to small of a market. IMO anyone who thinks they may be towing for 5 years or more and has a older truck is the time to buy...The issue would be ..which brand will survive the big truck market???? Gramps..Glad I am not in your shoes. I think it would cost me mucho money....

stiles watson 12-25-2008 02:44 AM

If you need it, you need it. If you want it, you want it. Everything else is rhetoric and rationalization or just plain BS to justify your decision. Happy RVing.....

exav8tr 12-25-2008 03:25 AM

Gramps, Obviously, the choice is yours. Personally, I like the idea of the new vehicle warranty for how ever long it is. It is also nice pulling into a park with a new rig. Before the Montana, I had two Dodge trucks, one with the Cummings, it had a 3:55 rear end and was not rated for the big Montana, Traded it for a 2500 Chevy D/A, loved it for pulling, However, it was short on looks, (Silver birch with dark interior and short bed). WANTED a 3500 dually, went and bought one. Love it!!!

Hey, Life it to short to WANT all the time, I say GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!

Merry Christmas!!!!

Delaine and Lindy 12-25-2008 03:32 AM

Don't know what will happen to the Big 3 but there will be 1 ton Trucks. Someone will build it there is a large market for 3/4 ton and above. Most all Ranchers and Farmers have to have Heavy duty Trucks because they tow much heavier equipment than our 5th wheels. And there will be Class 8 Trucks for many more years to come. Most all who tow the heavy 5th wheels are at the limit when towing. I haven't owned a 5th wheel yet that had the correct weight listed. My Trucks weight is 8,560 full of fuel and ready to tow. So that leaves me a total of 14,940 to be at the max tow rating.

So when buying a Truck you have to watch the weight of the Truck. When we had the Chevy 4500 our Cambridge and the Truck was 27,700 gross weight. And with the 2007 Chevy 1 ton and the Cambridge the gross weight was 25,600, don't know the weight of the Dodge or Ford for sure but the weight of the tow Truck adds up very fast. I would have no problem buying a new Truck at this time. But the big question is who will work on these Trucks if the Big 3 do go down and it sure looks as if they will, unless there are major changes in the labor cost. I do believe that Toyota has a 1 ton that could be on the market in less than a year. Good Luck with your decision. GBY...

richfaa 12-25-2008 03:51 AM

Rich said...I do not believe that the big trucks WE USE FOR TOWING are going to survive cost cutting and restructuring. We are to small of a market. " ..... There will be a need for 1 ton and 3/4 ton trucks for the "fleet market" but I don't see many of us towing with "fleet trucks" Fleet trucks are generally not King Ranch's or lariats. My bet is on elimination of the lowest selling models of all brands both cars and trucks. I will not be surpried if for example the "King Ranch" model of the Ford is dropped very soon, for starters. On the possible good side..perhaps to save money the big three will use common the Cummings or CAT????

SlickWillie 12-25-2008 04:15 AM

Just my opinion, but is this the time to buy a Dodge or GM truck? Perhaps a Ford, as they appear to be the most solvent of the three (did I really say that). I sure would hate to buy a $30-40,000 truck and the manufacturer go belly up. What will happen to the warranty if they file Chapter 11? Could the courts dissolve warranties as a cost effective measure for the manufacturers? Most new vehicles I have ever owned had a couple issues in the first few months, even if nothing more than reflashing the ECM.

JimF 12-25-2008 04:47 AM

The DW fell in love with a red truck, hated the silver one, so I bought the silver one, she hasn't drove it yet and we have had it 7 years. Get what YOU want..

ols1932 12-25-2008 05:13 AM

Oh man, oh man. Decisions, decisions. Life is full of tough decisions! Merry Christmas all.


Delaine and Lindy 12-25-2008 06:00 AM

I believe Cat is going out of the Road Truck engines, going to stay wiht off road equipment. Just to hard to meet the EPA requirements. Don't remember were I read this so take it with a grain of salt.

Towing with Fleet Trucks I agree, most RVers have never been inside a Class 8 Truck the is built for the Professional driver, but I drove almost a million miles in Pete's and Freighliners, and the one's I drove was all leather interior, Captains seats both Air ride, and the Cab and chassis was all Air Ride and had big walk in sleeper compartments, with Tv, Mircowave etc. Much better ride than any of the Big 3 1 ton Trucks. I run the Cummins and Detroit 60 Series and I liked the Detriot 60 Series over the Cummins. The Cummins never got the fuel mileage as the Detriot 60 Series. I know most RVer's don't want to run the Class 7/8 Trucks but its a option. Cummins is a awesome Diesel engine. But I prefer the Duramax, and am very concerned that the Big 3 are on the verge of going under. I know Ford is somewhat better shape than GM/Chyrsler for what ever reason. But if the others go down, I think Ford is gone also. I will say this the next 1 ton Super Duty F-450 will get a real close look. I'm very disappointed with GM management that lets the UAW control them. But like goes on, and Life is GOOD. How could we ever complain living the life we are living. GBY...

lwcdg 12-25-2008 06:57 AM

It has always amazed me how people pick at the "news" releases of information. CEO's rob corporations and resign or are fired with golden parachutes. UAW decides what to pay industry mgmt. Of course this miss use of funds by bankers going on a business retreat at a cost of 500K is also the responsibility of Unions. The bankers were at the resorts studing how to solve the over spending staff workers.

What does this say? it was and is the greed of a few people incharge, and NOT that of the average worker or the UNIONS. MGMT is paid today on average 100s of times more than the workers. But the public believes or is being fed the line it must be the bad UNION.

Remember without the UNION developing a wage for their workers, the NON union shops would almost never be paying a wage to compete with UNION workers total benefit package.

Lastly the UMW (United Mine Workers) were one of the strongest Unions in America. What killed it? Greed! How? The NON UNION paid more in wages and benefits untill the union companies went out of business they could not compete. They were broke, out of money. Then the GREAT NON UNION SHOPS went in and reduced the wages, sometimes in half, cut benefits sometimes to nothing at all. Next the workers learned to live with what they were given. They then worked at a wage not seen in 20 or more yrs. Today their wages are coming back and so is a few UNION mines.

Be careful what you ask for. I want my kids to have a better life than I've had. I don't think it will happen but I CAN hope!

All of these comments are based on first hand knowledge and a dash of scarcasism thrown in for the season.
Happy Holidays and pray for a better New Year

PS I'm a business owner today. my employees have a knowledge of the business costs. They realize that we are in for a fight to stay in business. This economy will have far reaching effects, some not even thought of today.

Mrs. CountryGuy 12-25-2008 12:41 PM


I agree with you on more than a couple of points, but these in particular

1.) Greed will get us every time.

2.) Many Americans are basing their opinions on the 30 second sound bites fed to them by the news media. We all do it, yes, we do. And, if you knew more about a subject and then listened to the 30 second sound bites you would be appalled at the absurd comments being sprewed forth as fact.

3.) I still don't understand why we can give the banking industry how many billions, and no accounting for it, and thier execs are still flying the private jets around and getting some kind of bonuses, with the name changed, but, the auto industry was given chump change when compared, the jets are gone and they will account for every penny. Almost makes ya wonder who has it in for the Big 3?? And WHY???

4.) UAW unions have already done a lot of cutting of wages, but, ohhhhhh, no one reports that. Anyone every hear of two tier wages in the Big 3?? No?? Why not?? I surely don't have the answers.

OHHHHH, but, I am listening to the 30 second sound bites, so that is probably wrong, eh?? [B)]


1.) Al is a Ford Motor Company hourly skilled maintenance retiree.

2.) I am returning to the snow bank to hide my head in, this is too complicated for 30 second sound bites.

dieselguy 12-25-2008 03:06 PM

Back to the truck dilemma ... one item of concern at least in the Great State of Kansas ... property tax and auto insurance premiums. I also have a 2000 7.3 that runs great, looks great, and has been paid for for some time. A new truck would be nice, but I just don't want to start over on thousands of dollars in property tax and insurance premium increases just because I saw a new truck.

radio flyer 12-26-2008 10:13 AM

I had 3 Ford trucks and 1 Dodge. Ford is the best truck you can buy. Keep your truck and save your money.:)

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